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Crusader Coin with a Rose?

 
 
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Valued Member

Lebanon
137 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2018  4:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PhoenicianX to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello everyone!

I came across this unusual crusader coin at a jewellery shop recently. It sort of reminds of the Bohemond coins from the Principality of Antioch but it could be from the Kingdom of Cilicia as well. I don't think I've seen a coin with a capital H and the rose so any help would be highly appreciated!

Thank you!



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United States
21860 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2018  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure that it's a Crusader coin. The Rose looks like a Tudor Rose and the H could stand for Henry Tudor.
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United States
413 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2018  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A bit out of focus but I believe the "rose" is actually the city name LVCA written around a central dot.
https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/ma...Default.aspx
Edited by Kushanshah
10/11/2018 6:18 pm
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9184 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2018  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@PX, I agree with @KS's attribution. Here is a prior CCF thread with several more examples of this coin:

http://goccf.com/t/281259

In addition to having the edges shaved to make the coin squarish, your coin appears to have been holed and then partly refilled.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Australia
12958 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2018  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These Luccan base-silver denaros are often squarish; I have had two in my collection (one was so beat-up, I gave it away when I obtained the second) and they were both closer to square than circular.

As for whether they qualify as "crusader" or not, well, technically not (Lucca is in north-western Italy, far away from the Crusader front lines in the Holy Land) but coin dealers are always looking for an "angle" to sell their coins; some dealers classify any coin from Europe or the Middle East struck anytime between 1100 and 1400, Christian or Islamic, as "Crusader". Both of the Luccan pieces I mentioned earlier were sold to me as "Crusader coins".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
413 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2018  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are two basic classes of "Crusader coins": those which the crusaders took with them and those which were eventually struck by the crusader states. Raymond of Aguilers, a chronicler of the First Crusade, gives a list of the coins that the crusaders used among themselves. These include the billon denars "of Poitou, of Chartres, of Le Mans, of Lucca, of Valence, of Melguiel, and of Le Puy". Indeed, coins of these types do turn up in the Holy Land today. The significance of Lucca is that it was one of four imperial mints in Italy and that it supplied the coinage for Pisa, which was the first of the Italian communes to lend maritime support to the crusader movement. In other words, the coins of Lucca "came with the fleet" (Zacour & Hazard eds., The Impact of the Crusades on Europe, 1989, pp.356-359).
Edited by Kushanshah
10/12/2018 10:17 am
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 Posted 10/12/2018  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of potential interest to folks who would like to see a thread dedicated to crusader coins:

http://goccf.com/t/285873
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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