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1989 LMC: Something is up with IN of IGWT....please take a look!

 
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Valued Member

United States
66 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  03:46 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add victoriarose28 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I tried to get a clear photos of what I am trying to tell and show you on the above subject. I just hope my photos will serve you well to help and verify this, maybe a type of error that you can share and explain to us. Thank you.




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United States
24383 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  04:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is from die wear,DDD. Not an error and spendable.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
13643 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  04:17 am  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Click on these links, if you want to learn more about Die Deterioration and the different die states. I have covered these on CCF. http://goccf.com/t/317950 http://goccf.com/t/325638
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Pillar of the Community
United States
6833 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die deterioration doubling, not a doubled die.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
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United States
6882 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
See that "ridge" circleing IN GOD WE TRUST? That is a tell tale sign of a worn die. (also know as die deterioration), add the "doubling" with the letters and you get Die Deterioration Doubling - (DDD)

Darn, I could just have said .

Would be nice if an explanation was accompanied along with a vague statement so people can actually learn how or why things happen on coins.
"I have enough money to last me the rest of my life, unless I have to buy something."

Working on a Dansco 8166 Kennedy half album. 131pcs ,of 160 total, so far
Edited by Mark1959
11/08/2018 11:14 am
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United States
6833 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Would be nice if an explanation was accompanied along with a vague statement so people can actually learn how or why things happen on coins.



I know, my explanation was pretty lacking.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
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United States
32739 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is called a 'Ridge ring.' Die breakdown and deterioration. Very common on the single squeeze obverses and reverse. Sometimes the ring alters the devices by pushing upwards and making some areas of the devices raised so much, the die polishing removes a center area of the device.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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United States
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 Posted 11/08/2018  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Members only need to research the key words,DDD and worn die and ridge ring etc. That's how I learned. I also think that you retain the info better if you look it up yourself instead of me explaining over and over again.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
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 Posted 11/08/2018  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I also think that you retain the info better if you look it up yourself instead of me explaining over and over again.


But John you have to remember - today nobody wants to work for anything including knowledge. Reading 20 pages to get a one sentance pinpoint answer ain't gonna happen.
"I have enough money to last me the rest of my life, unless I have to buy something."

Working on a Dansco 8166 Kennedy half album. 131pcs ,of 160 total, so far
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United States
32739 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John1's statement is correct, but Mark is a realist. People what the answer, not the explanation. Me? I'm more of a look at the picture and see what I see. Train the eyes, you train your mind what you are seeing. Eventually it starts to make sense. Seeing is believing.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Pillar of the Community
United States
6833 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, sorry, I'll include more info in future responses.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
32739 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is how we learn. When we make a mistake and then to fix it going forward. The real mistake is to not learn, and have to suffer the kicks we give ourselves, for repeating the same error.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add victoriarose28 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all with all of your inputs.
@coop, appreciate all the educational and informative materials you've been providing. I still have so much to learn and I know it would be a long process along the way.

I thought die deterioration doubling is more like or mostly like of an incuse doubling on the devices. My question is particularly on IN of IGWT where in there is what seems to resemble a bar line, having the appearance placed in a rear position interlocking on the top of I and N separately creating a triangle-shape like. I've read about ridge ring ddd but nothing similar on this one.

Maybe you can share a photo similar to the inquired subject? It would be greatly appreciated.
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United States
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 Posted 11/08/2018  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mark1959, John1, coop, All three of you are correct. I gets frustrating seeing the same questions over and over again. But then I have to sit back and realize it's "usually" a different person asking the question.
Pillar of the Community
United States
6833 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


You can see the "pull-away" effect on the devices.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
Edited by SilverDollar2017
11/08/2018 2:16 pm
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add victoriarose28 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A big part of learning is to read and to ask if you don't understand. I appreciate most of you for sharing your knowledge and as a beginner it has been a big challenge learning about numismatics. I never thought of it as a doubled die. I understood DDD and ridge ring , I got that when you've mentioned it. But, I must admit, the bar line interlocking with I and N confuses me. So, yes DDD can be raised (like the 1983 D JN) and incused. I am trying to learn and understand all the different terms associated with numismatics and am grateful to you all for sharing your knowledge and expertise...and to your patience mostly.

Based from what I read and understood, is this then considered as Inside Abraded Die Doubling?
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