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Lower Canada Bust & Harp 1/2 Penny Token 1820/5

 
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United States
6 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  2:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pawnbroker to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
recently acquired this token and would appreciate any information available. Thank you.

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Canada
6486 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm certainly no expert on Bust and Harp Tokens
but I will tell what little I know and perhaps one
of our Token experts can add to it.

Yours appears to me as a genuine token. There were many
imitations of these produced.
They were originally produced in 1835 with that date on them.
Then they antedated the dies to read 1820, first by overprinting
the 1835 date and then producing a non-overdated die for the final production.
Yours sure looks like to be the overdated version.
If it is, it could be fairly valuable.

Do you mind me asking what you paid for it?



Don't argue with an idiot, he will beat you with experience.
Edited by JimmyD
11/08/2018 4:25 pm
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United States
68289 Posts
Valued Member
Canada
214 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This appears to be genuine. Can't see any red flags from the photo...

Edited to removed initial unbridled enthusiasm.
Numismatic cataloger, dealer in Canadian and American coins and medals. Visit http://www.jacoblipsonrarecoins.com
Edited by NumisCat
11/08/2018 9:08 pm
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Canada
2156 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Check Wade's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have some reservations about this piece (I hope for pawnbroker and the community as a whole that I am wrong)

some very clear pictures of the date would do wonders,

IF legit you are $10,000+ richer.

Please post clear, focused, enlarged photos of the date.
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Canada
7381 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2018  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To the Forum.
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United States
4034 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2018  06:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2018  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pawnbroker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just sent the token out to NGC to be graded and slabbed. Anxiously awaiting what they have to say about it.
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Canada
6486 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2018  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
pawnbroker-
Be sure to let us know the results either way.
This could be an interesting piece to study.
Don't argue with an idiot, he will beat you with experience.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
16563 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2018  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting find.
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pawnbroker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Token was sent to NGC for grading and authentication. Was shipped back to me on Monday . Anticipate receiving it on Thursday. It came back as a grade of VF20 BN. Quite happy with the grading.
Valued Member
Canada
214 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a spectacular find. Congratulations.
Numismatic cataloger, dealer in Canadian and American coins and medals. Visit http://www.jacoblipsonrarecoins.com
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Canada
6486 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations!!
There are very few of those known to exist.
Nice when someone in the CCF has a find like that.

FYI-
The book price on that coin in VF is $12,000 CDN.
Don't argue with an idiot, he will beat you with experience.
Valued Member
Canada
284 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2018  03:21 am  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Speechless , so I typed it and put a Smiley.

Quote from Charlton 7th Edition token catalogue.
"In 1825 a halfpenny token was struck in Great Britain on Canadian order. It was learned that currency regulations enacted in 1825 forbade the further importation of private tokens into Canada. However, nothing in the regulations interfered with importing tokens dated before 1825."

and they simply used a zero punch. Easy Peasy.
Valued Member
Canada
60 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2018  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Token was sent to NGC for grading and authentication. Was shipped back to me on Monday . Anticipate receiving it on Thursday. It came back as a grade of VF20 BN. Quite happy with the grading.


Maybe your token is authentic, I couldn't confirm. However, NGC is not at all qualified for the evaluation of Canadian colonial tokens. I have seen so many minor and major mistakes from them over the years regarding these coins, that their opinion on your token is in no way conclusive.

You should have chosen a Canadian company (CCCS/ICCS). Their expertise has more weight with collectors of this type of coin.
Edited by ainsivalavie
11/30/2018 5:44 pm
Valued Member
Canada
214 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2018  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
*NGC guarantees the authenticity of the items they certify. They have a knowledgeable staff of experts. It is not a one-man operation. Plus, at least one of the companies you referred the OP to has been found within the past two years to have certified more than one fake Canadian coin. In one instance the mistake was blatant. As far as I know, those companies do not provide any sort of guarantee, but I could be wrong.

While NGC (and all other grading companies) are known to make mistakes with respect to variety attribution, I think the OP can rest assured the coin is the real deal. Also, the pictures provided do not raise any red flags. No point in being an alarmist or disparaging people for choosing that particular service.
Numismatic cataloger, dealer in Canadian and American coins and medals. Visit http://www.jacoblipsonrarecoins.com
Edited by NumisCat
11/30/2018 9:37 pm
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