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My first major auction company experience

 
 
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Valued Member

United States
96 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2018  12:39 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
My type set lacks a Flying Eagle cent. After searching the available options on EBay and the three internet dealers I favor, I decided to see what might be available from Heritage, as they send me emails almost daily. This coin was discontinued because it didn't strike well, and most of the specimens I have seen are poorly struck in one area or another. I had my eye on an attractive 1857 PCGS ms64 at one of the dealers that had eye appeal, but more striking weakness than I wanted to see.
I found what I was looking for, pretty easily and I put in a bid for a PCGS ms64 CAC at a price I was willing to go up to. I ended up losing by one bid increment, but I was very impressed with the offerings and the ease of the process..
What impressed me the most was the consistently high quality of the auction offerings. Many were CAC stickered, and I really didn't see anything I disliked. I did drool a lot, but there were many affordable coins available, including several that are not easy to find.
Based on what I saw and experienced, I will be searching auction listings in the future as I look for coins to add to my collection. I don't see this as a forum for finding bargains. My unsuccessful bid with buyer's premium was about 90% of full retail price. The winning bid was, of course, even closer to full retail. But the coin I found and bid on was the best specimen I have seen. The winner did not overpay.
Any way, I am pleased to have discovered a great potential source of high quality coins that I had never previously explored. I will become familiar with the other major auction companies, and hopefully have a little more success next time. I would recommend this resource to anyone looking for high quality or hard to find items.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3118 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2018  01:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Depending on value and eye appeal, CAC coins can easily reach a 20-60% premium at auction.

What you said should be eye-opening to some members of this forum. Far too many times on this forum I hear things like, "I don't bid on auction coins from the auction companies because I think it's wrong for a buying to pay an auction premium."
But if those folks were to slow down for a second they would figure out that bidders already figure that premium into their bidding offers. Further if they did more homework on sold listings, they would realize that the coins sold at auction from the big 5 auction companies play a large part in setting values for the obsolete price guides that some collectors still insist on using.
It doesn't require anything but simple math to realize that a large portion of those auction coins end up being sold by dealers with a 10% - 20% markup in their shops or at their ebay stores.

Congratulations are in order. You're starting to 'get it' much faster than most.

Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Edited by MikeF
11/19/2018 01:39 am
Pillar of the Community
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United States
1221 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2018  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found the web interface at Heritage to be rather unfriendly for the longest time. I had gotten used to eBay but had to venture out to fill the remaining holes in my sets. My first purchase with them got a mixed reaction on here -- I won with a rather low bid, and perhaps rightfully so. I'm still waiting for my second purchase to arrive -- over 10 calendar days and hasn't shipped yet. Another surprisingly low-bid win, so we'll see how I like it when I have it in hand.

Among the pieces I've watched and did not win (many, many others), there are some very attractive pieces, and even some less-appealing ones have gone for may more than I expected. I've also watched some live auctions go buy -- now there's a learning experience. It can be fun to "watch" the two remaining bidders -- one really wants it (raises quickly) while the other isn't quite as sure (waits until "fair warning" before placing the next bid).
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (Bust era), Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2127 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2018  06:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My 2 experiences with auctions (both smaller Canadian ones) went well, although I admit that the $25 shipping charge for the second one was annoying but not surprising.

Auctions are definitely the way to go for harder to find items. Needless to say they will make good if something is wrong with the coin. Sometimes you get a bargain but don't expect this for highly sought items.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17184 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2018  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I kind of feel sorry for those collectors that use ebay or other such sites. Myself, I love coin shows. At a coin show you see exactly what is for sale. No shipping charges, no insurance charges, no nothing but the coin. Usually many other dealers so lots of competition so prices are normal. If your a friendly person, you get to know other collectors and some dealers. Usually no parking fees or entrance fees except the large shows. However, if none are available, I guess those auction places are what is left.
just carl
Pillar of the Community
United States
1543 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2018  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrency Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Auctions, especially the smaller less known ones are a great way to pick up good value material for a nice discount. It just takes time.

KK
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11122 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2018  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I kind of feel sorry for those collectors that use ebay or other such sites.


I feel sorry for those that don't and limit themselves to shows.


Quote:
My unsuccessful bid with buyer's premium was about 90% of full retail price.


You won't be owning many CAC coins without luck if you're only going 90%.


Quote:
Further if they did more homework on sold listings, they would realize that the coins sold at auction from the big 5 auction companies play a large part in setting values for the obsolete price guides that some collectors still insist on using.


That ones really hurting themselves are the greysheet buyers who think they should be able to buy like a dealer. Quality isn't built cheap
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2018  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Basebal21 I'm not here to ruffle anybody's feathers, but you seem to have taken Sharkman's quote out of context. He expressed no regret or frustration about losing his auction, rather pleasure with his experience at Heritage, and felt that the winner did well paying almost retail. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but your comment seems to suggest that he should have bid more than he was willing to spend. I'm not sure that is what you intended, but that's how it came across to me.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11122 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2018  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@Basebal21 I'm not here to ruffle anybody's feathers, but you seem to have taken Sharkman's quote out of context. He expressed no regret or frustration about losing his auction, rather pleasure with his experience at Heritage, and felt that the winner did well paying almost retail. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but your comment seems to suggest that he should have bid more than he was willing to spend. I'm not sure that is what you intended, but that's how it came across to me.


Not out of context and yes everyone should stop at their limits by all means. I was just saying that the CAC coins like Mike said as well usually go for a premium unless you get lucky. I worded it kind of briefly since Mike had already said it and that probably was my bad, was just trying to also get that point across as you can see the CAC premiums on a lot of auctions
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2018  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Basebal21 That seems reasonable. I may have just read it wrong.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11122 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2018  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@Basebal21 That seems reasonable. I may have just read it wrong.


No worries, I should have probably worded it more descriptively
Valued Member
United States
96 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jaded and Basebal,
You're both right. I had a budget I wanted to stick to, and I pushed it all in. My bid was actually one increment higher that 3-4 successful bids for the same CAC issue listed on the Heritage site. There were a couple higher. My bid was for $80 more than I could buy a nice non CAC version for today. There were also a couple sales that were higher.
I knew I might not win and am not disappointed I didn't. You can't win them all.
Matters actually took a positive turn for me, because after making my bid a very hard to find coin that I had wanted a long time became available. I was actually hoping someone would outbid me so I could, and ultimately did, buy a PCGS MS64 1849 Seated Liberty dime. PCGS coin facts estimates only 40 survive in mint state. I have a good deal of skepticism about survival estimates, but they are made by people who are trying to be correct and other sources confirm that this is a very scarce coin in mint state. I had once looked too long at a MS-62 which I hesitated to buy because I wanted a higher grade and I didn't pull the trigger fast enough. I had figured I had missed my opportunity for good on the 1849 dime, but ended up getting one at a grade I liked. Very much a happy camper.
The F.E. Cent, on the other hand is easy to find in all grades and I will have many other opportunities.
I knew I was slicing it thin on the CAC premium. I just bid my budget and hoped for the best.
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Jaded and Basebal,


Jaded? ... I didn't mean to come across as Jaded.

Edit: And congratulations on winning that scarce dime.
Edited by Jadey
11/23/2018 10:40 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2248 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both Ebay and the major auctions serve a purpose. I have gotten some great BIN deals on Ebay, and have obtained CAC stickers on unstickered coins on Ebay. In general, the major auctions encourage Sellers to submit coins to CAC (or send them in themselves) prior to auction, as well they should, so one should assume any non-CAC coins offered were declined by CAC. Having said that, just because a coin does not have a CAC sticker by no means indicates it isn't a great coin. One thing about the major auctions is that you may end up paying state sales tax, I would get around this by buying additional coins, even if I didn't really collect them, to get over the threshold (and often sell them off on Ebay). I don't particularly like doing this, but for me it a better option than coughing up additional $ to the state.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11122 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
so one should assume any non-CAC coins offered were declined by CAC.


That's only really partially true. Mid four figure and up coins yes that is usually true. Even in those cases those some auctions have deadlines and some coins do get entered into it before they could go to CAC or some seller just really dislike CAC ect. There are exceptions even there but it is a much safer bet.

1k and under and more specifically 400ish and under though its a guessing game. You can always ask if they know if it was submitted but there are a lot of price points where someone may just not want to pay for it or it just isn't worth it money wise.
Valued Member
United States
96 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jadey
I wish there was a way to turn off auto-correct. I proofread everything before sending and still often miss words the computer has changed on me. It just changed your name on me twice while typing this.
Glad you're not Jaded. It's a very short distance from jaded to grumpy.
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