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1958 D and 1957 D (LWC) with unusual die chip placements.

 
 
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 Posted 12/06/2018  12:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***

While searching through three bank bags of wheat cents I found these two little nuggets. One is a 1958 D LWC and the other a 1957 D LWC. They both have at least one thing in common, they both have die chips in the upper right hand corner of the 1 in the date resembling a small r especially the 1958 D. The 1957 D has another in the nine but thought this was unique as I have never seen two quite like these. There may be nothing on these two anomalies but unique enough to keep. What say you my CCF friends?









Edited by Jim0815
12/06/2018 12:23 pm
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 Posted 12/06/2018  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tunnioc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't recall ever seeing a die chip on the 1 in the date
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 Posted 12/06/2018  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Defiantly Interesting
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 Posted 12/06/2018  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an overlay for the obverse on Wheat cent obverse clashes:

True the edge of the 'E' doesn't touch that area. But if one die were rotated a bit. It might touch that area?

This could have created a die chip or weaken the die to chip later on? (This doesn't always happen, but if the rotation of the dies were moved 7.5 degrees out of line, it makes sense that this could cause this to happen? (Just a theory)
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Edited by coop
12/06/2018 1:12 pm
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 Posted 12/06/2018  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't see those chips as being a clash, you think it might be Mr. Coop? Most of the clashes I find are under the chin.
Edited by Jim0815
12/06/2018 12:50 pm
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 Posted 12/06/2018  12:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Eye4Error to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have alot of coins of those years with "9" or "5" or both that have chips, as well as the BIE errors... but I don't think I've seen a "1" chip yet...

Interesting what Coop is saying about a die clash... hmmm
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 Posted 12/06/2018  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What makes me think that it is not a clash is the depression most clashes leave on the obverse.
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 Posted 12/06/2018  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In theory I could possibly see this happening. The obverse and reverses on these cents are true with no rotation.
Edited by Jim0815
12/06/2018 1:29 pm
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 Posted 12/06/2018  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check out a 1957-D interior die break listed on cuds-on-coins.com. It isn't your coin, but it shows a chip on the right side of the top of the number "1" in the date. It is listed as IDB-1c-1957D-02.

The 1958-D shows heavy polishing lines from the bust to the date area and also shows what appear to be small die cracks from the SW corner of the mm to the bust and running SW from the "8" in the date. The 1957-D shows a die crack (and incipient break) from the top inside curve of the "5" to the E side of the mm and strong metal flow lines toward the rim.

On another thread, I posted these thoughts:
Here's a question in light of this coin and the fairly closely located IDBs for 1950-57 and 1979. What is the source of the die weakness in this area?

The listings (1950-D, 1951-S, 1952-D, 1952-S, 1954-S, 1957-D, 1979-D) have two things in common: dates with curved tails on consecutive digits and mint marks. Is the weakness caused by (1) the tail of the "9" alone, (2) the presence of two curved digits in close proximity ("9" and "5" or "9" and "7"), or (3) is it the effect of punching the mm close to both the tail of the "9" and the tail of the "5" or "7"?

I'm aware of the IDB between the "7" and rim on the 1987 cent and the crack between the last digit and rim on the 1943 and 1946 cents, but the rim in those cases operates as a second curved element in proximity. The die chip on the "8" in the 1983 cent might be an exception.


Let me add a couple other thoughts to spark some discussion.

1. All of the dates with IDBs near the date also had high mintages and overworked dies.

2. @coop's theory about a die clash is solid. The stresses from the clash could easily exploit existing weakness in the obverse die.

3. Even though the dies are in normal alignment on these coins, a rotated clash still could have occurred. The rotation could have been caught and the dies realigned or the reverse die could have been changed after the clash.
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 Posted 12/06/2018  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The clash marks aren't from the clash, but caused the die to chip later on. They probably spruced the die up a bit and thought; 'No one will notice?' But we do.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 12/06/2018  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Check Fuzzy317's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You should include the date, mintmark, and the denomination in your titles.

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This enables the members with expertise pertaining to your question to easily find and answer your question. The title of the topic also becomes the title of the topic's web page, which enables us to attract more collectors to the site. The more members we have, the more we learn.
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 Posted 12/06/2018  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fuzzy, I do apologize. I thought 1958 D and 1957 D LWC would have covered it.
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 Posted 12/06/2018  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Check Fuzzy317's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I added the ( LWC) to the title. It was not there before.
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Circulating Dollar Coins ......Circulating Half Dollar Coins ...... Circulating Two Dollar Bills
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 Posted 12/06/2018  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Fuzzy.
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