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Mayflower Gold Coin And Silver Medal In 2020

 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
905 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2019  08:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The April 15th Federal Register indicates that the CCAC at their next meeting on April 16-17 will
Quote:
Review and discussion of candidate designs for the Mayflower 400th Anniversary 24K Gold Coin and Silver Medal

I haven't seen any news about authorizing legislation for these, but since the CCAC is discussing designs they must be planned for release next year.

The legislation that authorizes the 24K Buffalo bullion coin, PL 109-145, says
Quote:
(3) SUBSEQUENT DESIGNS.—After the 1-year period described to in paragraph (2), the Secretary may—
(A) after consulting with the Commission of Fine Arts, and subject to the review of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee, change the design on the obverse or reverse of gold bullion coins struck under this subsection; and
(B) change the maximum number of coins issued in any year.

So, I'm guessing that this Mayflower 24K coin will be struck under this authorization and the silver medal will be struck under Treasury Secretary authority.

EDIT: This Coin World article says both the coin and the medal are being issued under Treasury Secretary authority (31 U.S.C. §5112(i)(4)(C) for the gold coin and 31 U.S.C. §5111(a)(2) for the silver medal). According to the article, the gold coin will be a $10 coin and it will be 22K and not 24K. It would have to be 22K if it's being minted under the cited authority.
Edited by BadDog
04/13/2019 2:05 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1179 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2019  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
*** Political Commentary Removed by the staff ***
Pillar of the Community
United States
1472 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2019  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...0th.all.html
Quote:
"This is not a commemorative coin program, and has nothing to do with any proposed legislation," White said of the special authority granted under provisions of the United States Code.

He added, "The Mint is producing this special gold coin in accordance with the authority at 31 U.S.C. §5112(i)(4)(C) whereby 'The Secretary may continue to mint and issue coins in accordance with the specifications [for 22-karat American Eagle Gold Coins] at the same time the Secretary in [sic] minting and issuing other bullion gold coins under this subsection in accordance with such program procedures and coin specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion, may prescribe from time to time.' "

Edit to add: The purity is in question here. The legal section cited in this article notes the same specifications as the American Eagle, which is not 24k gold.
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (early Bust era), Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
Edited by Alpha2814
04/13/2019 1:56 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
905 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2019  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is not a commemorative coin program, and has nothing to do with any proposed legislation," White said of the special authority granted under provisions of the United States Code.


IMHO the Congress couldn't get the Mayflower commemorative coin program passed, so the Mint decided to go ahead and make them anyway. They just can't call them commemoratives and in the medal's case, can't even call it a coin (thank goodness PL 99-61 doesn't allow the Secretary the latitude of issuing other designs in conjunction with ASEs or we'd probably have a Mayflower Ag bullion dollar instead).

Is this the start of a slippery slope to becoming more like the Royal Canadian Mint?




Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 04/13/2019  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
IMHO the Congress couldn't get the Mayflower commemorative coin program passed, so the Mint decided to go ahead and make them anyway.

Congress tried and failed; the Mint didn't decide anything -- the Secretary did. Each of those is politics but we only seem to call it that (and complain about it) when our side loses.
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (early Bust era), Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
Edited by Alpha2814
04/13/2019 2:30 pm
Pillar of the Community
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905 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2019  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, of course it's the Secretary's decision. I was using the term Mint when technically I should have said Secretary. My bad

I have no idea why the Congress couldn't get this particular commemorative bill passed (it doesn't even appear to have made it out of committee), or what politics were or were not involved. I just disagree with circumventing them and making a commemorative coin and just not calling it a commemorative coin, i.e., "recognizing" the event instead of "commemorating" the event. Just MHO.
Edited by BadDog
04/14/2019 07:28 am
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 04/13/2019  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
*** Political Commentary Removed by the staff ***
Valued Member
United States
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 Posted 04/16/2019  07:37 am  Show Profile   Check captainrich's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add captainrich to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Other than the Basketball program, is there any other commemorative program slated for 2020?
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 04/16/2019  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm at a loss to understand why my explanation regarding the reason Congress didn't pass the Mayflower commemorative coin program was deleted. While I understand that we don't want to get in to political discussions, this legislation was not passed because of politics. Leaving people in the dark as to the reason simply because it pertains to politics isn't helpful for those who want to know.
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 Posted 04/16/2019  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is okay to say it was because of politics.

It is not okay to start talking about those politics, which is what you did. (Yes, I can see what was removed.)
Pillar of the Community
United States
905 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Mint has posted the considered designs.

IMO the CCAC discussion was focused mainly on the political aspects of minting these, but there was also a fair amount of discussion about the symbology and appropriateness of the designs. CCAC members continually referred to the gold coin as a commemorative without correction by the moderator.

One member mistakenly thought that the Au coin was Congressionally authorized and the moderator had to correct him and point out that the coin was being minted under the Treasury Secretary's authority.

Another member voiced concerns about whether the designs would work on a half eagle sized coin. The same member also questioned why the denomination was $10 instead of $5 because commemorative half eagles are $5 coins (I believe this is because the 1/4 ozt AGE is a $10 denomination and the Mayflower coin is being minted under the AGE authorization.)

I wonder what kind of pre-meeting packet the Mint sent to the members. You'd think it would have covered the basics like what authorizations are being used to mint the coin and medal and their specifications, but either it didn't or not all of the members read it closely enough

There was one bit news that I hadn't yet heard. The Mint is planning on issuing some kind of Mayflower set with the UK's Royal Mint. Something like is being done with Australia this year.

It was difficult at times to follow the discussion over the phone, as you couldn't always hear the speaker. In the end, I believe the CCAC didn't really come together and recommend a design. They just recommended that the Mint do what they thought would provide the best overall theme in conjunction with the UK Royal Mint. I might be wrong about this though, as at one point they DID vote to recommend a design, but after an adjournment they reconsidered that vote and decided against it.

It's always interesting listening in on these CCAC meetings
Edited by BadDog
04/16/2019 5:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
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1472 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's weird that the Mint's article is calling them 24k gold, and mentions the Act authorizing them without linking or referencing the Act itself. (The Coin World article I linked above references an Act and 22k purity.)

Some of the designs are okay, but we already had a Pilgrim/Mayflower commemorative 100 years ago. And yeah, what /is/ the other commemorative slated for 2020? There's always been two since that limit was imposed.
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (early Bust era), Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
Pillar of the Community
United States
1179 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is not okay to start talking about those politics, which is what you did. (Yes, I can see what was removed.)

OK. It's ok to say that it was about politics, but not ok to explain political motivations nor how the same political motivations would have impacted coinage from the past. That makes it difficult to have a real discussion on the topic, but I think that I've got it. BTW, I don't really appreciate your implication that I was somehow deceitful regarding what I previously posted. I wasn't and would be perfectly happy for you to repost it as I take full ownership of it. I can't imagine that anyone would have been offended by what I wrote.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1472 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can't imagine that anyone would have been offended by what I wrote.

I was. I've just learned not to say so here, at least not in public. (And no, I did not report that post because I also believed that someone else would take care of it.)
Working on: Peace dollars (two to go), US type (early Bust era), Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 04/16/2019  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
BTW, I don't really appreciate your implication that I was somehow deceitful regarding what I previously posted.
Since you cannot let it go, I will put this out on front street for everyone...

You crossed the line when you said "some who are downright hostile" in the first post and "because the left opposes anything" in the second. Those two statements will only incite those being accused of being hostile and/or those on the left to respond. Better to stop it than let it escalate. (And thank you Alpha for choosing not to engage.)

This is all that will be said on this. You either accept it or you can leave.
Pillar of the Community
United States
905 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And yeah, what /is/ the other commemorative slated for 2020? There's always been two since that limit was imposed.


PL 104-208, sec 529 was passed in Sep 1996 and limited the number of commemorative programs to no more than two per year beginning in Jan 1999. Since then, there have usually been two programs per year, but there have been exceptions.

In 2003 there was only the First in Flight Centennial Commemorative program and in 2008 there was only the Bald Eagle Commemorative program.

Currently, only the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Commemorative program has been authorized for 2020 so it may prove to be another exception year. OTOH there are still at least 4 other 2020 commemorative coin program bills (Carson City Mint 150th Anniversary Commemorative Coin, Christa McAuliffe Commemorative Coin, United States Coast Guard Commemorative Coin and National Women's Hall of Fame Commemorative Coin) in active legislation that could yet become a second 2020 program.
Edited by BadDog
04/16/2019 2:23 pm
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