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Chinese Cash Coins? Fakes?

 
 
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New Member

United States
14 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2019  5:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Yazul to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi All

Is there anyone who is expert with Chinese cash coins? I like to have few examples and I found these but not sure if they are real? One of them is dark and lack the green patina is that normal for these series? The other one has some pink color patina? Never saw pink on bronze before


Valued Member
United States
442 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2019  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jskirwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One moment please. A Chinese expert will be with you shortly.

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United States
11092 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2019  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@yazul, if you are concerned about the potial for puchasing fakes, then I would strongly recommend staying away from ancient Chinese coins.

Added: see below for a couple links from one of our experts and see how you do (hopefully better than I did...):

http://goccf.com/t/266555

http://goccf.com/t/273710


"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
04/19/2019 10:54 pm
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2019  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yazul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@spence I totally agree with you and that is why I posted here :)

Let's see if your experts can detect these coins. I am guessing they are fakes but I am not expert in this. My feeling is based on lack of patina on one and the strange pink color patina on the other. The bronze should get green not pink !

I also looked at the links you shared. The second link , I got 3 and 4 correct as genuine and 1 and 2 as fake so I guess I passed it with 80%!
Pillar of the Community
United States
627 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2019  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may find the advice in this article worthwhile: https://www.coincoin.com/I054.htm

About 8 years ago, I sold my entire Chinese collection to a Chinese national here in the US who in turn sent them all back to collector friends in China. He told me that the problem with fakes inside China is so bad that many collectors in China will now buy only from overseas.




Edited by Kushanshah
04/20/2019 12:15 am
Valued Member
Netherlands
85 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both are genuine and nice coins at that! I don't have my catalogue with me at the moment, but these are both of the type traditionally attributed to the Sui dynasty without doubt. You can recognise those by two main points in the calligraphy: Triangular component of Jin tilted slightly right and a vertical bar to the left of the Wu character. Recently though there has been some debate whether these should not be reattributed to the Western Wei kingdom, based on the fact that these were found in a tomb predating the Sui Dynasty. Sui pieces are now thought to have a hourglass Wu, while Western Wei pieces have straight lines. But this is far from a certain manner of identification. Both of these pieces would be Western Wei.

Patina on Chinese coins are incredible complex, varied and some of the most charming within numismatics. A combination of different alloy and soil compositions will often cause them to be much more vibrant than their western counterparts. I almost exclusively collect Chinese coins from the warring states period, and boy are there some interesting patina's around. Just a sample from my collection:







Hopefully this will have given you an insight into the plethora of different patina's found on Chinese coins, from a light spotted green to heavy blue, green or red. The first spade in particular shows a number of different yet vibrant colours on a single coin!

I particular wanted to focus on the last spade (well actually, it is three fused together). See that pink area? Pink is actually quite a common colour in Chinese patinas. This special two-tone Beige/pink and dark blue (azurite) patina even has a special name in Chinese numismatics: Beijing patina (even though the majority of coins with this patina are not found in Beijing). It is quite a desirable patina, as it is difficult to fake. I'm not a metallurgist by any means, so take what I am about to say with a slight grain of salt. I have been told that these pinkish spots are especially common on Chinese coins (almost all of the spades have at least a tiny area where it is visible), because of their metal content: they often have higher lead content than their western counterparts. These pink spot are formed by a mixture of mineralisation into Cuprite (reddish) and Cerussite (whitish), which gives a spotted pink appearance, not a complete homogenous pink (which is what you see on both my spades and the wuzhu in question). On the three fused spades it is still wholly original, but on the second spade you can see how it looks after it has been filed down slightly or scraped (in this case to reveal the characters). Cerussite is a corrosion product of lead and forms in similar conditions to Malachite and Azurite, the green and blue hues you see on quite a few of my spades.

As for the top Wuzhu, this black patina is also quite a common sight in Chinese numismatics. It forms in anaerobic (waterlogged) conditions and is frequently seen on coins with a medium to high tin content. Take a look at some of the Northern Song coins from shipwrecks that you can find online for example. All in all, two nice coins that I would have absolutely no problem in owning! Feel free to contact me if you have additional questions.
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yazul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot AnYangMan You have a very nice pre-Qin coins I am too worried to collect these as I heard many of these are fakes. Even the 2 coins I posted here, I thought originally they were fake till I read your post. Thanks so much for great write-up
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yazul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What do you think about this knife money AnYangMan? The price is pretty high if fake he is really ripping off the buyers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/China-Warr...AOSwTM5YwVNw

Can I have your email address to send you Chinese coins I am considering to buy if you don't mind? It would be a great help for me.
Valued Member
Netherlands
85 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2019  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have absolutely no problem with that, I would be glad to help! Unfortunately I can't send you a PM for some reason, please try if you can send me one!

The knife you showed is nice and genuine, and quite a rare piece at that. Normal Ming knives can easily be had for under 60 bucks, but this is a so-called 'Boshan' knife. These were cast within a small timeframe within history when the Qi state was overrun by the Yan state and are thus quite rare. You can identify these by looking at the calligraphy of the Ming character on the obverse, which is very elongated compared to a normal Ming, as well as the overall shape of the knife. 800 USD for such a knife, especially with a nice green patina, is certainly not too much!
Edited by AnYangMan
04/21/2019 7:41 pm
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2019  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yazul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot AnYangMan for help. I would like to connect with you by email because there are so many coins I might find online and prefer to run them with you without creating too much traffic here. I tried using email or PM option on the site but since I registered recently it did not allow me to send emails so I asked you if you could share your email and we can connect there
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United States
19879 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2019  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks a lot AnYangMan for help. I would like to connect with you by email because there are so many coins I might find online and prefer to run them with you without creating too much traffic here.


That's the entire point of this forum. Share the knowledge. Don't keep it private.
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