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Coin Or Medal Rejected By NGC? List Them Here And Why. Inelligible Type?

 
 
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Valued Member
United States
308 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  9:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Ok, after a few years of trying to authenticate (find) my gold 1959 Venezuela 11.7 gram Adolf Hitler medal, in any catalog or from any source (which came up snake-eyes), I sent it to NGC, not really expecting that they would grade or slab a medal, in their eyes, a medal of which cannot be found anywhere, including the dozen catalogs I have.

In other words, it does not exist. The fact that it has a traceable line, which means it is in the 1957-1959 "Chiefs in the Second War" series, which includes about 18 world leaders in the series, including the monster Hitler.

I was more interested on WHY they would not be graded. It finally came back, ungraded and unslabbed of course, in a plastic pouch, with a NGC label which states: "1959 VENEZUELA, GOLD, ***NOT ENCAPSULATED***, INELIGIBLE TYPE.

here is the link to their rejection page. I was almost surprised to find that there were so many reasons why NGC will not grade or slab your coin or medal:

https://www.NGCcoin.de/news/article/6436/

I went to a webpage on NGC'w website to try to find out what exactly "INELIGIBLE TYPE" meant. That definition is very loose and really does not say WHY, just that they do not grade this type of medal.

Regarding whether a minted item is either a coin or medal depends on your point of view. I have seen other coins, or medals, in the same series, ALL LISTED BY KRAUSE IN THEIR COIN CATALOGS, if it was listed at all. It is my understanding by emails between the bank in Venezuela, which is somewhat under siege under the current political upheaval climate, that demonintations were not put on their coins until 1960. Instead, they are separated by their gram weight and called bolivares.... 20 bolivares, 90 bolivares, etc.

But they do. Several of them. PCGS has even more. So, why was mine selected for this questionable honor. I have several guesses...

1. On mine, like 100% of the others in the same series, there is no denomination on the medal.

2. On mine, unlike 100% of the others in the same series, there is no gram weight engraved... only a big fat area where the gram weight SHOULD BE ENGRAVED. Why? Who knows? It is not a fake, plated or otherwise. It is a solid 22K round, if you prefer that term over coin or medal. I believe that my example was some kind of test or other type of experiment by the mint... name it what you will... sample, experimental, prototype, etc. But why would the mint leave out the gram weight, which is on all the others?

What does not help is that NONE of the others in the series has a gram weight of 11.7.

Lots of people THINK they have a one of a kind coin or medal. But unless NGC can VERIFY that the coin actually exists, by definition of their own criteria... it does not exist. It does not matter that it has been tested as solid gold. It does not matter that the year and the name of the series are engraved. It does not matter that many others (in different gram weights) in the same series have already been graded or slabbed. It does not even matter if you are holding the coin or medal in your hand... it does not exist. Therefore, it is only worth the melt weight.

TO ALL OF THAT, I SAY NONSENSE. This medal did not appear out of thin air. It is not a fake (how many fakes are minted in 22k solid gold anyways?), it is not a reproduction, it has been verified that the German mint, who made the medal for Venezuela, did mint this medal.

Anyways, here is the criminal. Thought it might be interesting to others to see what at least one reason NGC put on the label, as I am sure many of you have had your coins rejected for grading or slabbing for a variety of reasons on the NGC page listed above. Sorry if you have seen it before, as I have been at this for years just on this medal, but there is a difference now... it sports the NGC rejection label.

3. The medal is politically incorrect. Hitler did not allow any GOVERNMENT AUTHORIZED issues of coins bearing his likeness during the WW2 years 1939-1945. He wanted to wait until "he" (or Germany if you prefer) had won the war hahaha.

Having a few problems "cropping" the image, will try later. In the meantime, any comments or anybody who has an "ineligible type" or other reason on the list linked above, feel free to comment or post your coin.

thanks all... mike

Valued Member
United States
308 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, according to the NGC rejection reason webpage I was supposed to get my grading fee back minus $5. HAH! Somehow, that did not happen.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4698 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think political correctness might have played in to the rejection. Old Adolph is not too popular of a guy for the most part.
Valued Member
United States
308 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2019  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well, at least I got this going on with the medal. I can now claim that the medal is "NGC certified". No need to bother with the little nit-picky details, such as it did not receive a grade, or was slabbed, or anything else to be snippy about!

https://www.NGCcoin.com/certlookup/...-001/Othemr/

ANACS, here I come. Those guys will grade a goose. Well, not quite, but they do seem to be a little more diverse.
Edited by 4504
05/05/2019 03:58 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12577 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2019  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think political correctness might have played in to the rejection. Old Adolph is not too popular of a guy for the most part.


That wouldn't have played a role, there's countless things slabbed that they would reject if they were making moral decisions on coins.

Any time they reject something it's almost always either because they just don't do that particular thing like if you sent an ancient to PCGS, or because they can't identify it such as something where there's no reference material.

For PCGS/NGC private rounds are very hit or miss for what they will do and sounds like they may have concluded it was a private round and didn't want to do it in this case. If it is any sort of obscure test piece/pattern they're going to want documentation before slabbing it as such which in this case is probably going to be impossible
Valued Member
United States
308 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2019  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep. The medal was minted for a bank of Venezuela, so it could be considered private I guess, yet it is (or was) back in the late 50's / early 60's a very common medal, coin, round, whatever... it was used as currency. Here is a few examples. It does not help that this series is rife with errors, ommissions, misinformation, misrepresentations, contradictions, etc. more so than any coin or medal that I have ever seen before. Nobody really knows the real deal, except me haha, I have been at it for so long I could (and might) write a book about it. I am sure it will be a huge hit in the coin magazines haha. Even Krause skipped an entire year (1958) about it in one of their catalogs, it listed only the 1957 and 1959 medals. oddly enough, the 1959 version seems to be of Hitler only, while the others are not listed in this particular Krause catalog I have. They were listed in one Krause catalog, but in the next edition of the same catalog they were not mentioned at all.

whoops, I listed a link to the medals, but I got a message from this website that they did not like it because it had spammed them before or something like that, but a search on the web has plenty of examples. I do not wish to get banned again!

I agree, if it cannot be sourced by a catalog or such, it will not be graded, even tho plenty of the coins that DO have their gram weight engraved into the medal or coin have been graded by NGC and PCGS.

I tried the bank in Venezuela (no luck) and the mint in Germany, no luck there as it appears that at one time it has either closed and then opened up later or remains closed to this day... depends on what article is read.

But enough about my medal... if anybody has had their coin or medal rejected by NGC for any of the reasons
listed on the rejection webpage listed above, put your coin or medal on here and the reason given, especially if you disagreed, altho a dart thrown at the page and landing on any of them might be almost as accurate as the stated reason... not trying to knock NGC, but I am just voicing an opinion, it can be taken seriously or not... mike

mike
Pillar of the Community
United States
7065 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2019  07:29 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found this on NGC forums: https://www.NGCcoin.com/boards/topi...ment-9694710

See down a bit and the answer from NGC is we don't grade or encapsulate anything with Hitler's portrait or swastikas. Then another member shows some links showing several NGC coins with obvious swastikas on them. Quite amusing to see the exchange really. One would think that NGC would at least have a standard answer to put out there as official reason, instead of looking foolish by stating they DON'T grade them when they clearly have done so in the past.

Other than this one employees post I can find nothing on the list of item they won't slab or grade/authenticate on their official list.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
05/10/2019 11:51 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
4698 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2019  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.....and the answer from NGC is we don't grade or encapsulate anything with Hitler's portrait or swastikas


Sounds like a politically correct, completely understandable corporate policy decision to me.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12577 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2019  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sounds like a politically correct, completely understandable corporate policy decision to me.


The problem is that no such policy exists. The customer service person that responded to the question may have just been making an assumption of what they do or was misinformed. They absolutely do grade Nazi coins just like they also grade coins from Iran, North Korea, the USSR and so on.

There may be policies about how vulgar a token or love token can be, but there's no policies that ban coins from countries/regimes/time periods for political correctness or demeaning them to be evil
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