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What Has The RCM Done That Has Mad You Off?

 
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Pillar of the Community

Canada
609 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  04:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add wilsonwu89 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Seeing as the RCM is sending out emails basically begging people to come back...I'm sure they're reading forums like this to gauge market research...

These are just examples, feel free to pile on:

-When the 5oz pucks came out in 2015, they were popular and cool. I still think they're cool. They got greedy by replicating the series over and over and over. Not only did the original set lose value, the new ones did too because it's exhausting. No one is going to collect that many 5oz coins and therefore they killed future demand by their own doing and made owners of the original series mad.

-The original Venetian bug set was cool! What did they do? Release a gold and 5oz puck version after. They got greedy again. What did that do? anger the owners of the original series...

-The original Superman set was cool too! What did they do? Keep making them year over year. Again agitating the owners of the original series.

Notice a pattern? When they should have just stopped a series, they milked it in the name of short term profits and decimating secondary value of their products.

If there's no secondary value to their products, then who wants it? In the world of collectibles, scarcity makes a product desirable. Flooding the market as they have done kills their own brand.

Their constant rereleasing of classic coins, such as larger versions of classic designs also cheapens the original coins in my opinion.

If a mint employee replies to this post and can tell us what they are planning to do to win collectors back, I will go out and buy a coin immediately. We know they won't lol.
Edited by wilsonwu89
05/18/2019 04:11 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
609 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  04:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wilsonwu89 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
O and the straight up lies.

"You can only get a 5oz penny with the subscription!"
Bold faced lies.

"These will be the last pennies ever minted!"-2012
Lies.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
609 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  04:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wilsonwu89 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All of these reasons soured me on RCM products.

It became a recurring theme around 2015ish where if you bought something really nice and fancy, the RCM would turn around and release something VERY similar and not at all unique.

And I honestly got sick of it.

I am back into collecting decimals now! :) Can't go wrong with circulating coinage!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
663 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Watching the silver price drift back towards $10, while RCM silver product drifts toward $200 isn't helpful either. Every other asset is reaching all time highs, while RCM NCLT has a tendency to lose 40-75% of its value.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5922 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may call me nuts, but I saw this coming when they kept, initially, cheapening special design coins by minting multiple new quarter designs per year (a long time ago). I used to love the uniformity of the REV designs in an album with an occasional, "Hey, what's that?" design thrown in. A different design was really special. But when new design became the norm, the "wow factor" disappeared and I lost all interest.

When they took it to an extreme in defining the word "coin," it made sense the end was relatively near.

I understand some people like the variety. Its just not me. Too gimmicky...it finally caught up with them.

Thankfully the US mint cannot follow in this pattern as easily since Congress has to OK coins. Otherwise you can bet we would have been having a new issue every time the wind changed direction also. I personally don;t buy hardly anything even from our own mint, and very, very rarely any special issues. Its not worth losing money unless I just like the design for fun.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4531 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was nice when they sold the 5 coins in the cello packs and you could get nice one for your set.

don't like paying double for a roll of toonies or loonies, not right.
Pillar of the Community
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United States
2301 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2019  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Check canadian_coins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The RCM pricing Vs metal content is totally disconnected with reality. I get that mintage and appeal certainly play a role in setting prices but $100/oz of fine silver is over 5x spot!! Crazy!

In contrast, you can buy 1oz bullion only a few bucks above spot. I get that NCLTs aren't in the same category as bullion but still I can't imagine paying that much since most NCLTs eventually reach close to bullion price anyway.

I would love to see some price limit of say 1.5x metal content. Which means that today most 1/oz $20 would cost $30. But perhaps a new system needs to be put in place that would satisfy collectors and the RCM as well.

First, I would eliminate this ized MC program that only favors the flippers, resellers and the very rich. I would eliminate the middlemen (the reps) and allow open access to everyone to purchase online whenever new coins are released.

In fact, to reduce cost and streamline operations, I would only allow purchasing from the web. Eliminate redundant call centers and focus on quality instead of managing defects.

Second, offer individual "special edition" coins instead of forcing collectors to buy the whole proof/specimen set.

However, on the flip side, I would allow the RCM to adjust pricing based on demand / metal value every day after market closing. Which means that they could capitalize on really hot items and adjust their price based on cost - fair game.

The RCM may still offer free shipping, gifs, etc. based on total purchases during the year. That's fine.

If those things happened then I'd probably make a few trips at the RCM web site.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Edited by canadian_coins
05/18/2019 7:57 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2609 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
First, I would eliminate this ized MC program that only favors the flippers, resellers and the very rich. I would eliminate the middlemen (the reps) and allow open access to everyone to purchase online whenever new coins are released.


I would hardly call the MC program for the rich since the $1000 threshold for silver status is really nothing given the high cost of RCM products. Buy a half a dozen 1 oz silver coins and you are almost at $1000. Buy two 5 oz coins and you have instant silver status.

BTW, flipping/reselling has been dead for the last few years. No one is doing it because only 1 or 2 coins out of 300 per year is flippable. None so far this year.

I agree with you the reps should be eliminated because they serve no useful purpose.

The Master Club program should stay but certainly needs improvement. What they do is called a loyalty program which many retailers have. Other coin dealers have similar programs that reward members for purchases. The only problem is their incentives sucks. You get one free coin, access to Master Club exclusives, and advance notice of new coins. That is very little value for spending thousands on coins.
Edited by MoneyPenney
05/19/2019 02:57 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4303 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The original poster's comments sounds just like the mid or early 90 of sports card and the greed of the companies to over produce so many variations of the same thing causing no after market.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
663 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Funny thing is, I was in Shanghai two weeks ago and went to a coin market. It was packed with people! Some booths were lined up with people buying gold and silver maples, pandas, DPRK coinage, etc. Not fake junk either. Much different than in Canada.

The RCM might as well open up shop in China and market everything there. Everything will sell out immediately. They have a different mindset regarding precious metals over there. A lot of graded items as well in PCGS and NGC holders. I was scanning the coins and checking the apps and everything I checked was the real deal.
Valued Member
Canada
301 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting thread... I hope that the RCM does follow this forum.


Quote:
When they took it to an extreme in defining the word "coin,"

This is actually a big deal for me. Anything released should be usable as currency. Of course you would be mad to use a 1oz coin you spent $100 for the $20 face value but that isn't the point. When you have carousels, murano glass add-ons, Enterprise shaped blocks of silver and even egg shaped items... They just are not coins. I was fortunate in being able to spend time in Paris over the last few years and when I visited the Monnaie de Paris store, they had numerous items that were not coins.. they also didn't have a currency value attached. The French mint makes jewelry, medals and other objects... and they seem to do well. NCLT is all coinage that could be spent (however imprudent that may be given the acquisition cost).


Quote:
The RCM pricing Vs metal content is totally disconnected with reality. I get that mintage and appeal certainly play a role in setting prices but $100/oz of fine silver is over 5x spot!! Crazy!

Also a big deal. I understand a premium over spot to allow for the creation of the dies, quality control, packaging etc. but 5-6x for silver seems egregious. I could understand at the quarter ounce level as there has to be fixed costs but when you are talking a 5oz coin for $500-$600... That is nuts. Gold doesn't seem to have these premiums... Most Gold NCLT sits under 2x... This is one reason I have switched my collecting to gold NCLT... Of course given the cost, I buy many fewer items at a given spend level however, I don't experience the same decline in value and don't pay the same premiums.


Quote:
I would only allow purchasing from the web.

I actually disagree with this. Many LCS rely on mint feedstock and the growth of the web based sale especially during the face value series era, hurt the LCSs. While the margins are low for RCM product at the LCS, if the product goes away completely, we can expect more LCS to close and that will significantly hurt the hobby, not just in the NCLT space but in the circulating collectible space.


Quote:
The only problem is their incentives sucks. You get one free coin, access to Master Club exclusives, and advance notice of new coins.

The Masters Club does need a revamp. Back in 2012 (before the slaying of the golden goose) there was value in advance notice as a few series sold out in a day or two and were just unavailable without a real hunt. These days, none sell out in real terms... I can't recall the last issue that sold out before general release that wasn't available from either a LCS or online dealer. the term " Masters Club Exclusive" is a joke... all MC Exclusives are available at Local or Online stores... You don't even need to weather the turbulence of eBay to acquire them.
Valued Member
Canada
301 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had wanted to make one other point related to the inflation of Silver NCLT prices. 10-15 years ago, if you wanted to buy silver coins at bullion prices, you were stuck with ASE, Maple, Britannia, Libertads and Philharmonics... maybe a few others but no year to year variety. It seems that over the last 10 years, the breadth of the bullion offerings have exploded and we have choices from Marine vessels, Animals, mythology, landmarks. In fact on the PM forum there are threads decrying the breadth saying it is just too hard and expensive to keep up.

Notably, most of these are issued and available for a few dollars over spot. Some climb to ridiculous prices due to availability but at initial issue, most are available for spot or close to. There are choices in fractional, ounce, 2, 5, 10 ounce and even some kilo multiples and while none are proof (the proof issues still have NCLT premiums) they are often BU or Specimen quality. As a collector of the "art", these are very viable alternatives. Even the RCM cannibalizes their NCLT market with the Birds of Prey series and the Predator Series in Bullion, not to mention Superman and the Canada 150 Voyageur.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4303 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
China is still a communist country and has currency controls of how much and bribes needed to exit the country ,so sure bullion is in demand because they with good reasonings just don't trust their own currency or the Chinese currency would almost become the de facto world currency, India in their strange ways of being a democracy also has some strict rules of exporting money out of their country thus mainly gold is hoarded, just a little different situation as is here were our currency has been good for over 150 years.
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United States
2301 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Check canadian_coins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I actually disagree with this. Many LCS rely on mint feedstock and the growth of the web based sale especially during the face value series era, hurt the LCSs.


Although I disagree, the RCM would probably still offer incentives for resellers regardless of how the coins are ordered. My point is two-fold: call centers make little financial sense in today's digital age, and I would like to see the RCM care about the end users (us the collectors) rather than the resellers.

If the primary market becomes healthy again then LCSs will eventually benefit on the secondary market. It's a win-win situation.




A picture is worth a thousand words.
Pillar of the Community
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United States
2301 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Check canadian_coins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would hardly call the MC program for the rich since the $1000 threshold for silver status is really nothing given the high cost of RCM products. Buy a half a dozen 1 oz silver coins and you are almost at $1000. Buy two 5 oz coins and you have instant silver status.


My point isn't so much about the multi-tier incentive program which I think is a good thing. As I said, loyalty programs are perfectly fine - when playing field is fair for everyone.

My gripe has to do with advanced notices based on status, and this absolutely favor the rich, plain and simple.

[BTW flippers still exist - in smaller number - yet they are still enabled by the MC program.]

A picture is worth a thousand words.
Edited by canadian_coins
05/19/2019 3:47 pm
Pillar of the Community
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Canada
7494 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

It's not a level playing field, the regular stiffs are marginalized.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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