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Odd Question Raised From Raised Hand On Statues On Coins:

 
 
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 Posted 05/18/2019  11:14 pm Show Profile   Check louisvillekyshop's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
OK I am listing this coin of Elagabalus with the Goddess Astarte "waving" but of course it is more of hand raised in the literature. So I started looking up, (as I always do to stop me from working apparently), when did we start waving at people? Wikipedia seems to think we started in the 18th century but really? No one waved goodby before that? Why can't this Goddess just be a friendly soul and be saying hi and welcoming people in?

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 Posted 05/18/2019  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No idea I'm sure it's been a thing for many centuries. In old Iranian culture waving goodbye was to symbolize the flapping of the sail as it left port. Note that's according to my grandmother so take it for a grain of salt. But, I can do it here,
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 Posted 05/19/2019  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If they waived good-bye...it meant that they would not return..that's why they said "safe travels" sounds good. P.S. always enjoy your post of ancient coins..
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 Posted 05/19/2019  08:05 am  Show Profile   Check louisvillekyshop's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Greasy Fingers;

Thanks for your kind comment of saying, "always enjoy your post of ancient coins", but you really can't thank me for that. You need to thank all the old men who spent lifetimes collecting and carefully putting away coins they spent hours on, building micro-worlds of collections they control and expertise they gathered with the hopes of passing on the tradition to their kids. Then thank their kids for not caring at all as they passed on the lots in boxes to people who sell me large lots of old estates. All I do is photograph them and put them all up at $1 to restart the clock for another collector to hide them away for another 50 years. It always amazes me how few people do what I do and actually collect coins as if you only collect knowledge of coins you get tens of thousands of coins to go through your hands in a lifetime and see so many more up close in my opinion and your wife is never mad at you spending money on coins.
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 Posted 05/19/2019  10:24 am  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin has an obverse and reverse that has figures with hands raised, but they are not waving. The Sol on reverse is so small the details are hard to make out, but Constantine shows more of what is going on. RIC VII describes this bust as showing imperatorial gestus.gestus is a great German word which means physical gestures that convey the attitude, or "gist'. So, the raised hand for Constantine (note the fingers also) is meant to convey a sense of regalness and authority. Sol, of course as befitting a god, also has a raised hand.



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 Posted 05/19/2019  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My reference to the fingers of Constantine above is probably a bit vague, but these gestures are carried on into Byzantine culture also. Besides coins, you see the curious raised hand on icons. For those interested, a small introduction-- https://aleteia.org/2016/06/12/what...-icons-mean/

below is an icon with a very similar hand gesture as that of the Constantine coin I posted above.


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 Posted 05/20/2019  03:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Waving wouldn't have been a "friendly greeting" in ancient times, due to the similarity with another universally understood hand gesture with a much deeper meaning.

And no, not the "Roman salute", as promulgated by the Italian fascists - which appears to be a fanciful modern invention as there is no literary or pictorial evidence that Romans saluted each other in the fascist fashion, with rigid-arm and palm-down.

Raising the right hand, with palm up or half-up, was commonly used in antiquity as a symbol of pledging trust, friendship or loyalty. It's a "you can trust me" gesture. In Greek-style Rhetoric and Oratory which the Romans adopted, the tradition evolved of a speaker holding his hand out in this manner for most of his speech - again, the message is "you should listen to me because you can trust what I'm saying". Because you had to hold your hand out there for quite a long time, if you were in the habit of giving long speeches, the held hand was in a relaxed, half-open position (rather than a flat palm or clenched fist). The Emperor Augustus is doing this in the famous statue of him known as the Augustus of Prima Porta.
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 Posted 05/20/2019  08:55 am  Show Profile   Check louisvillekyshop's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sap;

That will work for me in terms of what these Gods in these temples are doing. I did a few control finds in Herodotus text files they have online and it seems he never mentions anything like waving in all his tales. So saying you can trust me works for these statues very well. Thanks!
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