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Pride Of Two Nations Set

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Valued Member
United States
59 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add historicantiques to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


The InfinityPoint:

Regarding your previous post, culminating with "In my opinion, there are numismatists, coin collectors, and label collectors.":

Then you think the mints with all their special labels, First Release/Early Release designations, and labels of origins, are simply creating multiple markets for their items based not only on the actual pillars of numismatic values of coins (mintages, metals, conditions, beauty) but on secondary "markets" for several kinds of labels, which may not have anything to do with the coins themselves?

If so, I'd agree with you. My reasoning is, the value on a PR-69 $20 gold piece isn't based on whether it was an "Early Release" or "First Day Issue" or whether it was shipped from Ottawa or Boston. Its value will be solely based on those 4 pillars of numismatic coin values.

Same goes for Pride of Two Nations sets. Since all coins are the same, from the same two mints, 100 years from now, people will still abide by those pillars, and probably won't even care whether or not sets were "Early Releases" or " RCM" etc.. Unless label collectors outnumber actual coin collectors. Just my opinion.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2919 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Called the RCM Today. Their sets were sold out in 2 days, they went on sale a week earlier than the U S Mint's sales. There is no delays with shipping and they are and have been totally sold out.....So, Everyone who ordered from them, already has them... My concern, I missed the RCM's sale, I ordered from a National coin dealer. My thoughts are that I am being told from that dealer, My sets will NOT be going out till the July 16th, when the RCM sends them to the National dealer. My concern is this, IF the National company had the coins in hand a week after buying them, that would be the day the U S Mint started their sets for sale, They, the National coin company could send the lots of bought coins off to the TPG'S and told the TPG'S, they would not pay for anything but 70's, and the less then 70's are returned back to the National coin company in time to mail out to people like myself. Any thoughts.....
Valued Member
United States
165 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Check dave92029's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add dave92029 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgans Dad - I ordered my three RCM sets (sitting at NGC for grading) from The Coin Shoppe on June 23. and shipped to me on July 6

Hope this information is helpful.
Edited by dave92029
07/12/2019 5:08 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2919 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DAVE92029, Thank You. That solidifies my thoughts.........
Pillar of the Community
United States
696 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wyzeguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They, the National coin company could send the lots of bought coins off to the TPG'S and told the TPG'S, they would not pay for anything but 70's, and the less then 70's are returned back to the National coin company in time to mail out to people like myself. Any thoughts.....


Looks like you hit the nail on the head.
Edited by wyzeguy
07/12/2019 9:56 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
531 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Check captainrich's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add captainrich to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Called the RCM Today. Their sets were sold out in 2 days, they went on sale a week earlier than the U S Mint's sales. There is no delays with shipping and they are and have been totally sold out.....So, Everyone who ordered from them, already has them... My concern, I missed the RCM's sale, I ordered from a National coin dealer. My thoughts are that I am being told from that dealer, My sets will NOT be going out till the July 16th, when the RCM sends them to the National dealer. My concern is this, IF the National company had the coins in hand a week after buying them, that would be the day the U S Mint started their sets for sale, They, the National coin company could send the lots of bought coins off to the TPG'S and told the TPG'S, they would not pay for anything but 70's, and the less then 70's are returned back to the National coin company in time to mail out to people like myself. Any thoughts.....


This may have already came up, but the sets in RCM OGP should not carry a premium over the USM OGP sets, because what's stopping a person from using an empty RCM box, where the coins were sent to a TPG service, and filling the empty slots with the coins from the USM box?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2919 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not know about others, but in the U S sets I received, the problem was with the Canadian coin, NOT the ASE'S........ Or is it just me.? I hope the Canadian sets I receive are not any TPG'S leftovers......
New Member
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheInfinityPoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
historicantiques:

Haha yes I am agreeing with you, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I think TPGs are also trying to make more money by offering fancier labels, i.e. "San Francisco trolley car labels" for the RP annual set last year. I mean, who wants a plain brown NGC label right? So how about they charge a little extra (in some cases, some of the proceeds goes to some foundation/charity) for the fancy label, and capitalize off the fact that collectors will do almost anything to have stand-out coins.

I completely agree (and hope) years in the future whether this set originates from the USM or RCM doesn't make a difference. It just means the RCM version was intended for Canadians, haha.
Pillar of the Community
United States
908 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Check omxfl's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add omxfl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
APMEX upped the price of the RCM set to $249.99 now - that's $70 more than what they want for the US Mint set. I guess that answers some of the points raised in this thread - people are willing to pay big time for packaging.
New Member
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheInfinityPoint to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

APMEX upped the price of the RCM set to $249.99 now - that's $70 more than what they want for the US Mint set. I guess that answers some of the points raised in this thread - people are willing to pay big time for packaging.


If I wanted the OGP packaging that badly (and not the RCM designation from TPGs) I'd just buy the packaging sans coins lol.
Pillar of the Community
United States
531 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Check captainrich's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add captainrich to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If I wanted the OGP packaging that badly (and not the RCM designation from TPGs) I'd just buy the packaging sans coins lol.


Yes, and then take the coins from a US set and place them in the RCM packaging... Boom, you've got a set worth $70 more than the US set that the coins came from (per current APMEX pricing).
Edited by captainrich
07/12/2019 10:36 pm
Valued Member
United States
68 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2019  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moorek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My Pride Of Two Nations set coming tomorrow from US mint,ordered July 3 set in Memphis until Yesterday finally started moving!!
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2019  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the value on a PR-69 $20 gold piece isn't based on whether it was an "Early Release" or "First Day Issue" or whether it was shipped from Ottawa or Boston.


That's not really true. It is true there's plenty of gold where if it's a 69 it just becomes bullion but you can find examples of First Day or show release labels that carry a premium over the ones without it.


Quote:
They, the National coin company could send the lots of bought coins off to the TPG'S and told the TPG'S, they would not pay for anything but 70's, and the less then 70's are returned back to the National coin company in time to mail out to people like myself. Any thoughts.....


It's hard to say without knowing what place you're talking about. What you're describing absolutely does happen, but the date you were given would be an extremely fast and unlikely turn around time by PCGS or NGC unless it's one of the big big boys.


Quote:
I do not know about others, but in the U S sets I received, the problem was with the Canadian coin, NOT the ASE'S........ Or is it just me.?


Just depends on the set, some people will have issues with one or the other while some will even have issues with both.


Quote:
I completely agree (and hope) years in the future whether this set originates from the USM or RCM doesn't make a difference.


It most likely will. Obviously no one can predict 50 or 100 years from now, but we already have examples from several years ago where it still matters. The question really is how much of a premium will it command, not if it will command one.
Valued Member
United States
59 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2019  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add historicantiques to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

TheInfinityPoint:

OK, thanks for clearing this up.

basebal21: I don't think anybody will ask if a PF-69 1915-s $20 gold piece was "First Day Issue" or not, or whether it was found/came from Ottawa or from Boston. Those details shouldn't have any effect on its price. If there were two identical ones, and one had a "First Day Issue" label, any premium would be for the label - not for the coin itself. The coins themselves are identical and should have the same price. So you would actually be collecting labels - not the coins. You'd be putting value on labels, not on coins themselves because theoretically, they're identical.

I realize modern coins have these labels and they command premiums, but we all have to realize these values are for the labels - not for the coins themselves.

I also realize that if you have so many identical coins - say 8,000 PF-70s - labeled designations are a way of distinguishing them from the "bullion" of other non-labeled PF-70s. I get it.

But again, the extra value you place on a PF-70 with a label, as opposed to an identical one that does not have a label is purely based on the label - not on the actual coin. So, in effect, you end up being a label collector, unless the labeled designation (e.g. "First Day Issue" indicates an actual physical difference between the 2 coins. But it doesn't. They're identical.

I'm fine with the secondary market of modern coins based on labeled designations, but I'm not sure they will really matter 50 or 100 years from now - as in the $20 gold piece example. Nobody cares if that PF-69 100+-year old coin was an "Early Release" or not. And even if labels do make a difference in values, it's not coin collecting anymore, it's label collecting because the only difference between two identical coins would be the label.
Valued Member
United States
59 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2019  01:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add historicantiques to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

basebal21: Didn't mean to sound so "argumentive" and "self-righteous" in my last post. Actually, I'm in the process of figuring out for myself, if I want to submit my 5 sets to NGC or PCGS. Discussing with you helps me make up my mind! It seems that in theory there should be no difference in prices of identical coins, but like you say, when there are so many identical coins, mints have to create ways to market their production, and the logical way is to differentiate a mass of identical coins with labeled designations. So, if one is concerned only with values - regardless of how they're calculated - then getting into the secondary label market is fine. I'm good with that.

But being from the old school of coin collecting, I still resist getting into that market! But we'll see, I still have a few weeks to decide!

Thanks for our discussion, it was great!
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