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1845 Liberty Seated Quarter With Counterstamp

 
 
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Valued Member

United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  3:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 1993Z to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just picked this up today its counterstamped J.T.Davis I was wanting to know if anyone has a copy of the brunk book? I know the J.T.Davis was a know counterstamp but I was wondering if the book had any information on the person J.T.Davis?

@Exoguy I know you are very knowledgeable in this subject any help would be very much appreciated.


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United States
74970 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice!


Quote:
@Exoguy I know you are very knowledgeable in this subject any help would be very much appreciated.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
16315 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice early C/s. A fun addition to your collection.
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1993Z to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea I do enjoy picking up early counterstamp coins I find them interesting. They are a good piece of history to have.
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12466 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@1993Z, it is at least a known counterstamp as it is listed here: http://richhartzog.com/art/cmb.htm

Sorry that I can't be any more helpful though as I don't own the reference book.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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39336 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good detective work!
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1993Z to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Spence thanks I did see that it was a know counterstamp but the reference book is a little pricey. I guess if I keep buying counterstamp coins I'm gonna have to break down and get one.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15627 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2019  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, any time you start buying something specialized, it is really imperative that you get the standard references. They may seem expensive, but if you get serious with what you are collecting you will be glab you did.
Gary Schmidt
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2019  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1993Z to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea you are 100% correct conder if I do pick up a few more I will have to get a copy.
Edited by 1993Z
07/20/2019 12:20 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3489 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2019  10:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@1993Z .... Sorry for the late arrival! I only just spotted this thread.

I had spotted your J.T. DAVIS c/s on eBay. While I liked the host coin, an early and less often seen 1845 quarter, I passed on it. I like that the c/s was carefully positioned above the date. Given the size and plain style of the c/s, it may be a jeweler's retail mark.

From my perspective, it's gonna prove a very difficult c/s to positively attribute. Davis is a relatively common name. The first initial, "J", is perhaps THE most commonly seen initial. The middle initial "T" is the best clue to perhaps discovering the issuer. Should a matching c/s be found with an occupational or city/town stamp, that would help.

Brunk listed four coins bearing the J.T. DAVIS c/s in his last book, 2003. The catalog # is D-144. The pieces listed are as follows: an 1876 dime; an 1876 quarter; an 1884 and 1889 dollars. Brunk lacks pics of this issue, so any, all or none of the four may match the c/s on the 1845 quarter.

Attributing c/s's has long been a passion of mine. It's only by virtue of positively attributing a c/s that true history can be attached to a piece. I've long viewed attribution in four categories, given a burden of proof:

1) Potential (three or more prospective issuers apparent)
2) Possible (two prospective issuers stand out)
3) Probable (narrowed to one issuer being highly likely)
4) Positive (precise evidence beyond circumstantial)

I rate each piece in my database, numbering the level of proof, 0-4. This helps me focus on where I'm at with each file.

Brunk and Rulau had hundreds of contributors offering opinions about attribution on many thousands of pieces. I'd venture that perhaps 10%-20% of the attributions were founded upon insufficient evidence. Then too, at times when the author simply offered a possible attribution, that would eventually get "morphed" to a positive attribution at a point of sale. Now, I see that NGC has slabbed some counterstamped coins that are misattributed by virtue of morphing.

To sum it up, Brunk offered no positive or even possible attribution re the J.T. DAVIS c/s's. Having seen no pics of the reported pieces, he couldn't ascertain whether any/all of the c/s's were from the same issuer. Even if he had mentioned a few, I've no doubt that I could find dozens of potential issuers listed in nineteenth century directories. More clues are needed for this one to be solved.
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2019  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1993Z to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ExoGuy thanks for the insight on this coin. You are more than welcome to use/keep any pictures that I posted if you want for your files or to share with someone else down the line if it helps you in anyway.
I picked up another have dollar 2 days ago with a counterstamp but its just the initials HE on it. I actually bought it because I liked the coin. It was just a bonus for the counterstamp. I don't have the coin in hand yet or I would post pictures of it.
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United States
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 Posted 07/26/2019  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@1993Z .... Thanks for the kindly reply. Initials are very tough to attribute, but there are a few exceptions.

Given your interest in counterstamps, should you like to receive some articles on the subject, PM me.
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 Posted 07/26/2019  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sorry for the late arrival! I only just spotted this thread.
Better late than never.
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2019  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1993Z to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Exoguy I sent you a message. I knew when I bought the half 2 days ago that it would probably never be attributed but I really liked the coin itself.
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