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In The Trenches Fighting Counterfeits - With Acef Director Beth Deisher

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 3 / Views: 659Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United States
7264 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  7:27 pm Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Beth along with Jack Young of the Darkside Counterfeit group (I too am a member) are fighting the scourge of counterfeits for all of us. This video should be watched by all collectors today, If you are not familiar with Beth she was the editor of Coin World for many years (1985-2012), Now she heads up ACEF for the US Government. This was shot at the Early American Coppers Meeting.

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"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
08/01/2019 7:29 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17077 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  04:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beth Deisher has some critical points to make, and we should take careful note of them.

Some suggestions for detection of tungsten cored .900 gold covered bullion coins:
1*. Variations in high density magnetic flux
2**. Variations in ping tone
3***. variations electrical resistance test

* Has been done for at lest 50 years for crack detection of cast metal products.
** I have advocated the ping tone test on many threads here in the CCF. I have been criticized for suggesting such a test, but if it is done safely there is absolutely no injury to the coin being tested.
*** A standard test that has been used for decades in coin operated vending machines.

For my part, I buy Perth Mint bullion coins direct over the counter, in Perth Western Australia, when I visit there every couple of years or so. Same can be done by American investors in direct over the counter buying from American Mints. Beth Deisher has suggested this.
Just keep all of the purchase records to establish an independently proven provenace. If delivered through parcel post, it becomes even more essential to keep all purchase records.

I collect ancient coins.
I only buy high end items from internationally recognized auctioneers and dealers. Again, I have always kept all of the purchase records under separate security to prove provenance. Essential if my kids have to sell my collection out of my estate, after I kick the bucket.
My first international purchase was from Spinks in London, in 1978. I still have the purchase records and Polaroid pictures for this coin

Never been keen on buying on line from sellers unknown to me, except for low priced items, slabbed or unslabbed.
As Beth Deisher has explained, the Chinese either buy unused slabs direct from the manufacture, or make excellent fakes of them.
To check a doubtful coin, the slab has to be broken. There is a disinclination for the owner of a slabbed coin to break the the coin out of the slab for authentication, and the Chinese know this.


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Same scene for life critical pharmaceutical drugs. When the drug companies charge exhorbitant prices to American residents for their products, there is always the temptation to either reduce the strength or otherwise fake such drugs by the unscrupulous outside America.
This can be an extremely dangerous situation.
Most of this sort of fakery is done in India, again with excellent fake packaging.
I would suggest if such drugs are needed and you are living near the Canadian border, that you buy these products directly from Canadian supplier. Because the prices are lower, there is less temptation to sell fake drugs or drugs of less than the prescribed strength.


Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2019  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pillar of the Community
United States
7264 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2019  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sel_69l - All very valid points, I too do the ring test, but don't buy much bullion any more. Once in awhile I run across a great deal, but only rarely. I collect mainly EAC stuff, books (not many counterfeits there) and of course my Two Cent Pieces (which I know so well I probably won't get fooled by a bad one). But working with Jack and perusing eBay I see so many questionable coins lately, more so in the past 2 years, some of the EAC coins are down right scary in how good they are. But for the most part out of my price range and I'm only looking, there are more and more common coins popping up all the time that are very good, so good that I imagine some are getting into Top tier TPG holders too, as they grade so many coins it isn't feasible for them to test every single one with scrutiny, though I'm betting that will begin to change soon. Coins like the Modern Lincoln close AM varieties, are simply amazingly well done, see this video from Charles Daughtry of coppercoins.com website:

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There are some good reference papers on NGC too
https://www.NGCcoin.com/resources/c...t-detection/

a few years ago the EAC coins were turning up looking this good!

https://www.NGCcoin.com/news/articl...rfeit-Cents/

I also use PCGS coinfacts pages and Heritage's excellent photos to compare suspicious coins. If you are an EAC member their member site has some good whitepapers done as well, as I sure other specialty clubs do as well.

If you are not a member of the Darkside group on Facebook and would like to be included, you can message me for more information, you do need to have a good Facebook account however. This is a closed group.

A fight I hope we numismatists can prevail in, this one is definitely trench warfare right now, our hobby is on the line. The CCF sure does a good job at helping so many new members too, Bobby and Susan have really fostered a great on-line community, filled with honest and knowledgeable members and I am grateful that I found it back when I did.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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