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What Is The Difference: Uncentered, Partial Collar, Broadstruck Ect ...

 
 
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Valued Member

Australia
54 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  05:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Charl to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi everyone,

I'm having a having a hard time trying to understand and differentiate the difference between these errors.


Uncentered
Off centered
Partial collar
Broadstruck
Any other similiar error terms?


Tried searching online for days to get more information however they all very confusing and looked fairly similar to my uneducated eye.

Questions:
1) What is the difference of these errors and if you have pictures example that would be great

2) Is there different terms used in Australia (example die chip is kinda considered/called a cud in Australia)

3) Did I missed out any error that is similar to above error and any picture and example would be much appreciated

Thank you everyone for your time and guidance
Bedrock of the Community
United States
29460 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a great site full of info http://www.error-ref.com/
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Formerly nancyc
Australia
5073 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another excellent site that you might find useful:

https://www.australian-coins.com/er...coin-errors/

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Nancy
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Australia
13151 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll post to some examples in threads here on CCF.

Uncentred: That's just bad English. It should be "off-centre".

Off-centre: The coin blank is seated properly in the collar, but both dies are misaligned (if only one die is misaligned, then the term for the error is "misaligned die" rather than "off-centre"). The coin's edge should appear more or less normal. An alternative way to make an off-centre coin is similar to a broadstrike (i.e. the collar is completely missing) except the coin is nowhere near centrally struck. Most of the extreme "off-centre" coins are of this type.

Partial collar: The coin blank has not quite seated properly in the collar; it's "popped out" before the coin is struck. The dies are all properly aligned, but the coin blank is not, resulting in slight off-centring and some of the edge being squeezed out between the dies and the collar. If it goes most of the way around the coin, it's known as a "railroad rim", because it resembles a railway wheel.

Broadstrike: the collar is completely missing (either broken away or not installed properly). The coin is struck between the two dies, but there is no collar to stop the metal squirting out between the dies and spreading out. The coin's normal edge (reeding, etc) will be completely absent; instead, it will have a wide rim of splayed metal all around.

A broadstruck coin can look similar to a coin that's been removed from one of those "lucky penny" ring-holders, or some similar circular mounting arrangement (which would be post-mint damage and not a mint error). The difference is in the thickness of the splayed metal: on a broadstrike, the metal ring is quite thick - usually thicker than the actual coin. A removed-from-ring-mount coin has the surrounding ring of metal that's much thinner than the rest of the coin.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Australia
13151 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there different terms used in Australia (example die chip is kinda considered/called a cud in Australia)

Apart from the usual Australian-vs-American spelling differences (we spell it "centre" rather than "center"), the terminology for these particular errors is much the same.

Die chips are called "cuds" in Australia due entirely to the prominence of the late Ian McConnelly in the Australian errors and varieties scene. Or rather, he always called them "CUDs", with all-caps, as if he thought "cud" was some kind of acronym. Ian's tendency to unilaterally redefine the terminology in his columns, printed in the national coin publications, caused much gnashing of teeth among the "old guard" of error and variety collectors from the '60s.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Australia
575 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ian's tendency to unilaterally redefine the terminology in his columns, printed in the national coin publications, caused much gnashing of teeth among the "old guard" of error and variety collectors from the '60s.


I agree,the old School Dealers from the 1950/60's and even the 1970's would be turning over in their graves with what the later 'self appointed' Australian Coin experts have gotten away with in print over the last 40 years.
Its starting to level out again since the Internet started ,peoples opinions and views are under more scrutiny as published material from post WW11 is slowly appearing on the Web.for anyone to source.
Valued Member
Australia
54 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2019  05:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Charl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the information

I saw on another forum saying this which got me confused ... Does this apply to how we look at coins error in Australia?


Quote:
a long-time numismatist who once worked for a major TPGS: "A coin is not considered to be struck off-center UNLESS part of its DESIGN is missing. Its design does not include the rim!"

However, "not considered to be struck off center
Unless part of the Design Elements are missing.
Many coins look 5%, sometimes even 10% 'off center', but
if no design elements (including denticles, for example) are
missing, it's a broadstruck coin, or an uncentered broad strike.



By the way, what is the error on the coin on picture attached? I understand it's just minor error however I'm trying to understand the basics of coin error.

Thank you in advance for everyone's information


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Australia
13151 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2019  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll admit to being a literalist: an off-centre coin is off-centre, whether it's got parts of the design missing or not, and I don't see the need to make up a brand new word to describe a coin with an unfashionably small amount of off-centring. However, I would agree that for it to have any significant collector's premium, an off-centre coin should indeed have parts of the design missing. The "perfect off-centring" would be a coin which is so far off-centre that it has major components of the design missing, but not the date, mintmark or other features necessary for a full attribution of the coin.

As for the coin in the above post, I would say it has a slight partial collar (quite common in a coin as small and thick as the $2), or perhaps very slight off-centring; it's hard to say without seeing the entire coin (both sides). A similar effect can be created by squeezing coins in a vise, so I'd also want to see no evidence of this. Finally, many counterfeit $2 coins show this kind of feature, as a result of being rammed through a ring die. Be prepared to hear that possible answer as well.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Valued Member
Australia
54 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2019  05:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Charl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really appreciate for the educational information Sap

Attached is the full picture of coins on both side

Yes this error is fairly common however I just could not differentiate the different type of errors

Based on your previous information, I would guess this is partial collar error? Is that correct?



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Australia
13151 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2019  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, a very, very mild partial collar. GIven the natire of the $2 coin and the resultant commonness of this particular error, I'd consider it more an "error in design" rather than a striking error - kind of like ghosting on some of the old predecimal pennies.

The Topic for discussion at the last meeting of the Queensland Numismatic Society was "Errors and Varieties". Going through my notes, I've noticed that the old-timer collectors tend to use the general term "mis-strike" to describe any of the errors mentioned in this thread: off-centre, broadstruck, misaligned die and partial collar.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Canada
8608 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would call the example above a very slightly misaligned die (but within mint tolerances).
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