Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Need To Verify This Coin, Genuine Or Fake..estimate Price?

 
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member

Malaysia
1 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2019  8:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Artasiana to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Im new here

Need someone to verivy this coin. Thanks a lot.


Pillar of the Community
United States
2601 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2019  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


This is a fake.
Edited by tdziemia
10/11/2019 10:02 pm
Valued Member
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddyknuckles to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can Tdziemia or anyone else possibly tell me why this coin was determined to be fake without a weight or dimensions. I personally collect reales and am definately curious on this one. Sure the details look blotchy and its warn but for a 200 plus year old coin I have seen worse. This isn't a fantasy piece or a 1795 dollar or a crazy condition key date. We maybe shouldn't voice opinions without reasoning for our beliefs...
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
10221 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  04:22 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
We maybe shouldn't voice opinions without reasoning for our beliefs...


Compare it yourself:

https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...duid-1417393

My first problem is with the denticles. Its color, style and condition also say fake.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
Edited by spruett001
10/12/2019 04:24 am
Valued Member
Spain
93 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  04:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add txabs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no need to know weight of dimensions to know this is a very ugly fake, sorry. Simply, the king's portrait is a bad copy of the original. Just compare with a real one.



Regards
Pillar of the Community
United States
2601 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The banners reverse with the words PLUS VLTRA go over the columns on a genuine coin, not behind them as on this one.
And even with this amount of wear, we would expect to see some of the lettering on them.

The two large laurel leaves at the very top of the head obv should both go over the hair, but one goes behind on this coin. And they are too small.

There are a lot of 1801 coins available for viewing on CoinArchives, and none of them show variation in these details.

I also agree with txabs that the proportions of the bust are wrong. The neck is too thick, no space between back of neck and ribbon, etc.

I don't even own an 8 reales coin, but in this case there are enough mistakes by the forger to make it clear cut.
Edited by tdziemia
10/12/2019 07:11 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
4011 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Not meaning to but besides the other gross lapses in details of the design, the first obvious thing screaming forgery is those dentils not extending to the edge, indicating this was struck with a collar, which the genuine article never was.

Colligo ergo sum
Valued Member
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddyknuckles to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone I did see the hair looked like it was engraved by a kindergartener. Will have to figure out the denticles on these coins I hear it mentioned alot. Just trying to learn here someone said color was wrong is there really a correct color with a 200 yr old coin.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
16015 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As humans we train ourselves from birth to recognize faces, the eyes are probably the most important single feature.

The 'eyes' don't have it in this case, = fake.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
1412 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  11:16 am  Show Profile   Check Yokozuna's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is just a heads-up. It may be a problem with my PC and nothing more.

There's something odd about the JPG images from the first post of this topic. Adobe Photoshop will not open the file when I saved them to my PC. I was going to do an overlay with the two images as a diagnostic tool, but I get a hard halt with I try to open the image. Once I click on the "OK" button, I'm taken to a Norton Virus Protection screen. I've never seen this with any of the hundreds of thousands of image files I've worked with in Photoshop.

I don't know if the image files are infected, but I'm doing some research. Has anyone else tried to download these files and had a problem?

Here's the stop screen from Photoshop on my PC.
"Shine, shine, a Roosevelt dime
All the way to Baltimore and running out of time" - Tom Waits 'Clap Hands'

Pillar of the Community
United States
2601 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
is there really a correct color with a 200 yr old coin.

The short answer is no, because "silver" comes in all different purities, and because photographs are taken with different types of light, different angles, backgrounds, etc.
But, since you have a number of silver coins of this age, you understand what a natural 200 yr old patina looks like for a high grade coin and for a worn coin, and probably what a cleaned 200 yr old silver coin looks like, too. For this coin, I think those who commented on color may be referring to a uniform gray color and surface texture that is suspicious. To me the color and texture remind me of a circulated 50 to 100 year old cupronickel coin, but since I don't have any of these colonial 8 reales, I wouldn't trust myself to judge anything from the color in a photo.
Edited by tdziemia
10/12/2019 12:15 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
1412 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Check Yokozuna's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem I was having with the OP's image was the use of IMG and JPG in the file name. I was able to correct it.
"Shine, shine, a Roosevelt dime
All the way to Baltimore and running out of time" - Tom Waits 'Clap Hands'

Valued Member
Romania
77 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2019  06:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bogdanjovi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is hard to call a fake.
It is rather a poor reproduction.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
78522 Posts
Pillar of the Community
United States
4870 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2019  01:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


As stated the coin is a very poorly made copy of an 1801 8 reales. It is essentially worthless because it is a recently made Numismatic Forgery. It is still in production last time I checked and has a street value under $1. This example has been aged by someone who has made it somewhat more deceptive than normal.

However, I would suggest (with no intention of being cruel) that anyone who looks at this coin and can not immediately tell it is bad should not be collecting Portrait 8R coins until they have become much more familiar with what genuine coins look like. Go to a several coin dealers and look at pictures in places like the Heritage Archive until you understand the limit of normal variation in these coins. Otherwise, you will be very disappointed when you try to sell a coin like this and discover it is worthless.

The photographs here are completely adequate to identify that the coin was not even struck on a screw press. Notice the high rim on the reverse that is far higher than the detail of the coin which appears worn. Impossible.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4870 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2019  02:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
muddyknuckles You seem genuinely interested in the series. You should buy my book.

For older members of the forum (meaning people who have been here a while) - this coin is a well known fake having been around for about 20 years. The question has been raised before.

This is why many people omit the reasons.

The 1801 Chinese fake was originally made with a reeded edge like a modern US quarter dollar. Spanish Colonial coins were edged but with a repeated pattern of circles and rectangles. The forgers may have finally corrected this error but always check the edge first to make sure it is correct.

The edge of a colonial 8R was applied to the planchet BEFORE it was struck.

All colonial 8Rs were struck in an open sided manually powered screw press. This means that unlike modern coins colonial 8Rs NEVER have a high rim. The dentils (lozenge shaped ovals forming the border) will therefore extend to the edge of the silver. The reason was that the dies were made intentionally larger than the planchets. If the design ran off the coin at the edge - the coin could not be clipped (shaved to steal silver) without it being noticed.

Here, in particular on the reverse of the coin, the dentils end well before the edge of the coin and there is a raised rim segment.

So the coin is struck on the wrong press and there is no need to look further for reasons as to why it is a fake.

But here the details of the coin are far outside the permissible amount of variation seen on coins of the type.

Always remember no question is stupid unless you don't ask it.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.3 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05