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1859 Victoria Large Cent - Reverse Struck Through Grease On Date?

 
 
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 Posted 11/21/2019  4:27 pm Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This lovely old gal was a bargain bin find. I always look at 1859's and this one caught my eye, not because of the 9, but because of the 5...

Struck through grease, perhaps, or something else?


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 Posted 11/21/2019  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly looks like it - nice example!
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 Posted 11/21/2019  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Frog :)
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 Posted 11/21/2019  8:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the 1859 narrow 9 reverse dies is often seen with a very faint 5. It is Haxby reverse E22 which is paired with obverse 20.

I can't tell from your photos if that is the coin you have, but if you compare it to the photos in the Haxby catalog for those dies you can probably tell for sure if it is the 20+E22 or some other die pair.

All 1859's are interesting!

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 Posted 11/21/2019  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Once it shows up I'll give it a light conservation and photograph it; I should be able to match the rev. to Haxby; it also appears some of the A's on the obverse might be partially filled in?
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 Posted 11/22/2019  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JHax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The clogged A's are most likely from just dirt and grease. A's do sometimes fill with metal, but that is very rare and the probability of two A's on the same coin clogging with cuds is about the same as being struck by lightning, twice!
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 Posted 11/22/2019  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info JHax :) I might take after them with a rose thorn and see if I can't dislodge the gunk.
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 Posted 11/27/2019  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Got it today and spent a bit of time with Dr. Haxby's site and your info, Phil310
Definitely obverse #20. The die clogs are present on the right serif of the V in VICTORIA as well as the other three noted (the one on the A in CANADA is especially prominent, the left serif looks almost completely gone.)

Reverse 22 is a match for leaf 9 diagnostics, where it is stated that the EDS is not currently known, and that later die states develop cracks at L6, L8, L12, and L16.

My coin does in fact have die cracks at L6 and L8, with L6 being the stronger of the two (as Dr. Haxby noted for Stage 2) but there are no cracks at L12 or L16. I think that this might be a slightly earlier die state, or perhaps the opposite, that this a slightly later die state with the cracks at L12/L16 having been polished off. The 5 in the date is very weak when viewed perpendicular, but putting the coin more parallel makes the 5 a bit more visible.





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 Posted 11/27/2019  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die clogs can be very helpful identifying some of the dies. Good work paralyse!

Your coin is probably an earlier reverse die state before the state 2 listed in the catalog. State 1.5 should probably be added to the catalog when the E22 page is next updated. Thanks for the information.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  12:02 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll shoot high res photos tomorrow of the die features.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Full obverse/reverse





Die clogs: V / last A in CANADA





Reverse loops




Leaf 9 stem



Leaf 6 die crack



n.b. the photos have been lightened a bit; in hand the color is a smooth chocolate brown.
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 Posted 11/29/2019  07:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a nice find paralyse. 20 + E22 is a scarcer die pair.

There is a fair amount of crud on the coin at leaves 12 and 16 which may be hiding the die cracks there. If you remove the crud you may find light die cracks at those two leaves which would make it die state 2. If there aren't cracks there, then it would be state 1.5.

If you look at the full side photo of the E22 at the bottom of the Haxby catalog page, you can see where the cracks are at leaves 12 and 16. There aren't closeup photos of those two cracks on the page.
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 Posted 11/29/2019  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It needs a good soak in acetone or something similar and then I'll see if it loosens up the crud. For what I paid ($3.99 USD) I can't complain too much, I suppose. :)
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