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2016 P LDS Roosevelt Dime With An Extra Incuse "Leaf" Anomaly

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 611Next Topic  
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 Posted 11/25/2019  3:24 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found this 2016 p LDS Roosevelt dime in change last week in pocket change. I don't actively search for anything other than
Lincoln's so I'm a little baffled.

On the reverse, there is an extra incuse "leaf" anomaly that seems to mirror the whole leaf that the base is touching.
Even though the anomaly is lightly on top of some of the devices, there are NOT flat or sunken like I would expect if this was PSD. Some of the anomaly appears to go under the surrounding leaves and stems.

I'm trying to tell if it might be a counter clash, a struck through extra metal that fell off, a dropped "leaf" from the reverse die or a coincidental planchet flaw.

Any thoughts or comments are especially welcome as I have little experience in errors (not to be confused with varieties)

Thanks in advance.







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 Posted 11/25/2019  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oijogja to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not certain, but my intuition leans me towards the dropped leaf hypothesis. The shape looks similar to the leaf NW of the leaf-shaped depression.
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 Posted 11/25/2019  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Oijogja.

I thought that one at first but settled it being the one immediately to the right that it is touching (a reversed/mirror image)
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 Posted 11/28/2019  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bump.
(Turkey day might not be the best day for this bump )

Hoping someone can add or confirm anything about this 2016p dime from the images.
Thanks in advance.
If not, we'll put her away with a big ?.
Oh well.
Edited by Petespockets55
11/29/2019 06:26 am
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 Posted 09/16/2020  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bump one more time just in case anyone else has an idea?

Thanks to anyone that has some ideas.
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 Posted 09/16/2020  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a cool one. No ideas besides it being a dropped leaf, myself, but definitely gonna be watching to see what others think.
My best finds:
1996 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/372066
Two 2000 WAMs in a box: http://goccf.com/t/375240
1995 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/376071#3225244
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 Posted 09/16/2020  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tunnioc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Struck through a piece of grease shaped like a leaf.
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 Posted 09/16/2020  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The images are to close in to tell what you are seeing compared with a normal coin?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 09/16/2020  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all that looked again or replied.

Coop, I'll see if I can dig it up again, but from memory it is a leaf shaped incuse area that affects the field next to the leaf and is on the leaf as well without damaging the leaf.

The extra leaf kind of looks similar to an overlay image if someone took an mirror image of the center leaf that the bottom of the anomaly is touching and flipped it to the left.

It doesn't have any other reverse details scattered about and is not raised in relief like seen on counterclashes.

The secondary leaf just doesn't have the sharp outline like dropped letters or struck thought metal I've seen.

I suppose if the leaf shaped grease were soft and pliable the grease wouldn't be as hard, and make a weaker inpression on the coin.

Found it so here are some new images. Hope they help.






Edited by Petespockets55
09/16/2020 8:53 pm
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 Posted 09/18/2020  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, Any ideas on the incuse "extra leaf"?
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 Posted 09/19/2020  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure I understand why you don't think it's a dropped leaf, Pete, can you explain? That seems like the obvious answer to me, but it seems like that answer doesn't totally sit right with you.
My best finds:
1996 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/372066
Two 2000 WAMs in a box: http://goccf.com/t/375240
1995 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/376071#3225244
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 Posted 09/19/2020  01:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm leaning towards dropped leaf as well, seems plausible.
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 Posted 09/20/2020  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Samcoin and Ty2020b.


Quote:
I'm not sure I understand why you don't think it's a dropped leaf, Pete, can you explain?


SamCoin, I really like that question because I keep asking myself the same thing since struck through a "dropped leaf" was my first thought. But I wanted to get more experienced opinions from others about other possibilities I might be overlooking.

Most dropped letters I've seen have very sharp perimeter details but the perimeter details on this extra leaf is "mushy". I don't know if multiple coins can be struck by a dropped letter and if so will the perimeter be mushy? Maybe there is another "leaf" out there with a sharper perimeter that was struck before this one.

This coin does appear to be a late die state coin and I was trying to rule out a Type II counterclash since a counter clash (obv or rev) will have repeating design elements from the same side where it is evident.

From Error-Ref:
http://www.error-ref.com/counterclash-type-ii/
"Definition: Type II counterclashes trace their origin to a stray piece of hard metal that invades the striking chamber. The metal can be a die fragment, a piece of the collar, a piece of hardware like a bolt or washer, a broken-off machine part, or just about anything else one can imagine. In most cases it's impossible to identify the nature and origin of the foreign object. The object receives an initial strike, which leaves it with a raised design on one or both faces (one face can be protected by a planchet). The object then shifts position within the striking chamber and is struck again. This transfers the design back to the die face in the form of an incuse mirror image. Generally, only the field portion of the die face is affected. Every coin struck afterward shows raised, normally-oriented design elements in an unexpected location."
(Maroon and Green highlights seem to contradict each other so I must be reading something wrong.)


Looking at the first 1983p counterclash at maddieclashes (CCL(T2)-1c-1983-01)
http://www.maddieclashes.com/cclt2-1c-1983-01/,
the clash above the date is mirrored but seems to be raised.
So if the counterclashes are always raised (mirrored or normal orientation) this extra leaf would not be a counterclash.


Thanks to everyone here and hope I haven't made people feel like I've been . I still have my questions on this one but I'll go ahead and label this a dropped letter (unless I hear anything different from Mike or others).
Edited by Petespockets55
09/20/2020 11:25 am
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