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Remaining Unidentified 2019 Purchase #4: Unknown Broken AR (Russian Denga?)

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 560Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

Russian Federation
3176 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2020  7:26 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I expected this one to be easy. It wasn't. Maybe someone here will recognize it?

I thought it was Russian, so I showed it to an expert on Russian wire money, who looked at it and said he thought it wasn't Russian.
I still think it's Russian, but now I'm no longer sure.

Also, it's broken, so the weight isn't going to be very relevant...



10x10 mm (but broken, so was probably longer), 0.29 grams (but broken, so was probably heavier).

I'm fairly sure that the first side is a depiction of a man with a hammer (or axe?), and highly suspect that it's a mint worker (as on this type), but I guess it could just be an armed guy (as on this type).
Can't make any sense of the other side. Not even sure which way is up.
Valued Member
United States
353 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2020  10:52 pm  Show Profile   Check Seeker55's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure what this is, but in case it helps I extended the photos by drawing a rough outline of the probable extent of the full coin, and it looks like about one-third of the coin has been broken off. This makes the weight of the full coin somewhere near 0.45 g and the long dimension somewhere near 15 mm (still 10 mm across). This is roughly the shape and weight of a denga, but I didn't find a match in Zeno searching for silver dengas weighing 0.4 to 0.7 g and 13 to 18 mm maximum diameter. This weight and shape could also conceivably match a kopek or aqche.
Edited by Seeker55
01/08/2020 11:01 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
5213 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2020  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some correspondences here.



Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3176 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  06:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That sure looks like a match to me!
Apparently I was so fixated on the "mint worker" interpretation that I never realized that the figure was not necessarily oriented that way.

Vasily II the Blind, 1446-1462, AR denga.
Metz 173, Numista 189755.
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United States
23227 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  07:06 am  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! I would have need gotten that.
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United States
17175 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  07:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17308 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin most probably broken, due to internal silver crystallization.
All ancient silver coins (especially thin ones), should be handled carefully for this reason.

From my experience, all silver Dengas are much harder to find than their values suggest.
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3176 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Coin most probably broken, due to internal silver crystallization.
All ancient silver coins (especially thin ones), should be handled carefully for this reason.
I sure know that! Not that it always helps. And this one was broken like that when I bought it, anyway.

A few years ago I actually managed to break a small piece off another pre-1533 denga while carrying it home from the shop (don't recall offhand what type it was).

Quote:
From my experience, all silver Dengas are much harder to find than their values suggest.
Probably not in Moscow, I suspect.
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United States
3751 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
... or on eBay.
(some, but not all sellers are in Russia)

I continue to be amazed by Bob's research success on things like this.
Valued Member
Netherlands
66 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2020  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vstefanyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Bob L That was amazing find! :)
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Spain
1984 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2020  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that is impressive Bob!...Just wanted to say this....

I've been on the CCF for a few years now Bob and have been amazed and usually stunned by your ability to attribute or clarify details on coins that most of us look at and see...........BLURGHHH.....This one included!....It must be your artistic nature, as I know your an incredilbly talented artist as well, maybe this helps you to see the unseen....Whatever it is you have a real gift and thanks for sharing that....Paul.
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