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8 Reales Republic Mexico Durango Do 1845 Rm Paris Eagle Unlisted Overdat

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 Posted 01/13/2020  7:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Augustus49 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Interesting history here. The Durango mint changed back to a Mexican-style Eagle in 1842, in part I suspect, because they had beaten to death their 1831-dated French-made hubs featuring the beautiful "Paris" Eagle. (They had purchased those years before.) For years then, they had been dealing with effacing of and re-punching of their hubs and dies, respectively, to keep coinage current with the date and the mint assayer.

In 1845,for some reason, they produced a few coins with an old Paris die pair. Dunigan and Parker list the 1845/31 RM overdate with the Paris Eagle, but no others. The coin pictured is an 1845 RM with the 4 over another 4 with both over the 3. There is no evidence of a 1 under the 5, so effacement of the 1 had been total for this coin.

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 Posted 01/13/2020  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 01/13/2020  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Augustus49 Your coin is in all likelihood a new sub-variety. That is not a rare occurrence for coinage of the First Republic.

However, from what I have learned and observed, Mike Dunigan intentionally did not list all overdates. In particular the instances involving a simple repunched digit - 3/3 2/2 1/1 etc. were omitted far more often than they were included. To do otherwise would result in a very much larger book, and many (or most) of the sub-varieties would not add value to most coins.

In the case of these older issues involving hubs, there are also numerous overdates caused by the use of the hubs for more than one year as you allude to. The question of hub overdate versus die overdates needs to be fully sorted out before any real feeling for rarity can be determined.

Very few collectors of early 8Rs attempt to assemble complete date sets with all varieties included. I believe that is often due to the eventual realization that in this period every die is actually unique.

The problem with finding every overdate ever produced is very similar to locating every die used in a given year. Both are seen as being impossible by most people who have been collecting this series for years. Since Durango products were sold overseas for bullion, it is extremely likely that the output of many different die pairs simply no longer exists, because that entire output was shipped out as bullion and were melted.

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 01/14/2020  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Augustus49 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, Dunigan and Ralph Poucher disagreed on the level of detail, as I have heard from both of them.

However, in the level of reporting for Resplandores book, Mike reports an 1845/31 European Style, an 1845/35 Mexican Style and the normal date of 1845 Mexican Style. So, it would not be inconsistent for this DAM (as with other DAM's in his book) to list: 1845 4 over 3 if not 1845 as 4/4/3.

Anyway, next I see him I will ask if he was aware of the subvariety when they wrote the book.

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