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Help With Parthian? Coins Please.

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Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  11:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The following coins looked to be in good condition. They all had the same same description - "Here for Sale is a Top Quality Greek Silver Unresearched Hemidrachm Coin in Fantastic Condition With Amazing Detail. This Item Has Come From a Private Collection and the date of the coin needs researching."

Coins 1 and 2 appear similar. Thinking that they looked Parthian I tried to identify them, but have not found any matches. Can anyone help? Thanks.

Coin 1 - 18 x 19 mm. Weight: 2.76 grams

Coin 2 - 17 x 18 mm. Weight: 3.51 grams

Coin 3 - 18 mm. Weight: 2.57 grams
Pillar of the Community
United States
4650 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim,

The top two have distressingly similar features, with the obverse of each belonging to Gotarzes I, c. 95 - 90 BC, Sellwood 33.1 and 33.3. The reverse of each is - erroneously - from the drachms of Mithradates II, Sellwood types 27, 28 and 29, with that ruler's "King of Kings" legend. Although this particular mismatch of dies has been seen before (notably, a specimen from David Sellwood's own collection that was discussed in a 2006 essay by Dr. G.R.F. Assar), the likelihood of finding such identical mules, in the same group from the same seller, seems very small indeed.

Am I correct that the seller appears on Warren Esty's site of fake sellers?:

http://augustuscoins.com/ed/fakesellers.html

If it's who I think it is, he's also on Forum's Notorious Fake Sellers List. I hope I'm wrong. I'm not sure if you have access to the NFSL...thus I'm providing only the link to Warren's site.

The third coin is, if authentic, a drachm of Mithradates I, c. 171 - 138 BC, Sellwood 11.1.

The slightly cupped reverse is correct for this issue. However, if it's from the same seller as the first two - and given that it seems to share the same grainy surface and, perhaps, artificial toning - there might be some reason for concern. I see some details on the obverse at 1:00 that may be suspicious. With the coin in hand, does this look like it may be evidence of filing?
Edited by Bob L
01/14/2020 7:13 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4650 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Enlargement from the third one. From filing?





And weirdness from #2, perhaps a spot where artificial toning was missed, revealing much-too-bright silver beneath.

Edited by Bob L
01/14/2020 6:35 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the reply Bob. I have to admit that I was suspicious of these coins when they arrived. There were seven coins in total, and the toning was similar in each case.

Yes, on Warren Esty's site the seller is third one down under "H". This did surprise me, as his feedback is 100%.

I've attached some images of the edge of coin three, hopefully helpful in the area that you mentioned. There could be faint filing marks in the area arrowed.

I'll photograph and post the other four coins as a group, but I think I already know what the verdict will be.

Thank you,
Jim



Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again Bob,

The weird spot on coin #2 appears to be a worn high spot due to a ding on the edge.

I've attached the other four coins as a group, and as you can see, the surface and toning is similar to the others. It looks like this is an area I'll have to stay away from.

Jim

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United States
14542 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  8:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yikes that is bad news @novicius.


Quote:

It looks like this is an area I'll have to stay away from.


Rather than run away, is it possible to return these for a refund and then purchase coins from folks who aren't known to sell fakes? For one, Frank Robinson has an auction going on right now (full disclosure--I'm not bidding on anything of his this time, but have been pleased with my purchases from him in the past).
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Pillar of the Community
United States
4650 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yikes:



Quote:
third one down under "H".


As I suspected.


Quote:
could be faint filing marks


Agreed.


Quote:
It looks like this is an area I'll have to stay away from.


I hope that's not the case. Stay away from the dealer, yes. And from every dealer on the NFSL and Warren's list. But, please, don't stay away from Greeks and Parthians. There's great stuff out there - and many, many trustworthy dealers.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4650 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Btw, Jim, feel free to screen potential purchases here with us in the future. Not every forum allows that, but CCF seems okay with it. We don't always agree with one another when coins are posted for opinions on authenticity, but you never know. I think there would have been general consensus on this group above:


If you know of particular coin types you'd like - Parthian, Baktrian, whatever - we can also perhaps make some recommendations if we see good stuff currently listed. And we can certainly recommend trusted dealers - as Dave has done above.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is bad news @Spence, but thankfully I didn't spend a lot of money. I will be writing to say that I'm not happy with the coins and want to return them.

I don't actively look for this type of coin, but tend to impulse buy things that I find interesting. Sometimes it works, but there is the occasional time like this where I get it wrong. I should know better, as I have no knowledge in this area.

One thing is sure, I'll be checking the fake seller's list from now on.

@Bob L As above, I will be checking Warren's list from now on Bob. I do like the old Greek coins, and thankfully I've not had my fingers burned so far. I should really be concentrating on the late Roman coins, but find myself going off at a tangent now and then! It's all part of the learning process I guess, and it's great to have this community to keep me on the right track.

Jim
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United States
4650 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We live and learn. Be sure to make a habit of checking out the inventory linked from that sleepy looking dog at the top of the forum. Dr. (Joe) Sinski's stock is constantly rotating. So many good dealers out there - but why not start with one of our own?
Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've just seen the posts above. Thank you Bob, it would be nice to get an opinion on some of these coins before purchase. I usually try to identify a potential purchase by comparing on sites like Wildwinds, and Vcoins etc, but in this case time was short.

Most of my purchases have been bought on impulse, and many of them have been "unidentified Roman" coins. It can be fun trying to ID some of these coins, and it's a great learning process too. Usually I don't buy unless I get a match, but sometimes I just take a chance!

Yes, we live and learn. A truer word was never said. I have to settle on an area or theme, and concentrate on that instead of jumping around all over the place. It isn't easy though, as there are so many interesting and diverse coins out there.

Jim
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United States
22752 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim, sorry that these turned out to be fakes. It's a terrible thing to have these type of people plaguing our hobby.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree 100% @echizento, but they are in all walks of life. It it were not for the members of this community I could have gone on believing that they were authentic.

I have to be more careful in future.

Jim
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Spain
1689 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2020  04:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry to hear this Jim....

Please don't let this stop your interest in other type coins..

In my first couple of years of collecting ancients (Roman) I really was quite naive and it was only because of the experts on this forum with their amazing amount of knowledge and guidance that I got through it...
As Bob said...I've posted many coins to receive feedback before buying especially when moving out of my comfort zone....This has helped me tremendously...

Good luck in the future a I'm looking forward to seeing more coins from you.

Paul

Valued Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2020  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm maybe moving into strange territory too quickly Paul. I'm still just scraping the surface with the Roman coins. I'll probably still buy the occasional coin that takes my interest, and if there is time ask for guidance from the more knowledgeable members. For instance the two coins arrowed in the pictures below caught my eye, but I have no idea of how to try and identify them.


Not being able to speak and read the language is a big stumbling block too, so it's the classic case of trying to run before I can walk!

Jim
Pillar of the Community
United States
4650 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2020  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin at right displays a fire altar reverse. Seeing the obverse would help immensely. It might be a Kushano-Sassanian AE issue. Maybe Hormazd I?

This is Finn's and Kushanshah's area.
Edited by Bob L
01/15/2020 4:20 pm
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