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Toned Wheat Cent Treatment Gone Wrong?

 
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 Posted 01/16/2020  9:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Steelers72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Before I begin, want to write a disclaimer that I love the product VerdiCare and have had successful results using it before: http://goccf.com/t/319050&SearchTerms=Verdicare

In my album I had a nicely toned Wheat cent & it was was developing a carbon spot (or?) rather rapidly. There was an existing spot under the R in America on the reverse, wasnt really distracting at the time. The larger & newer spot was developing rapidly under the O in one.

I was aware that VerdiCare does not remove carbon spots, but I wanted to conserve the coin against any further environmental damage anyway.

I soaked the coin with a few drops over night, and when I went to remove & dry the next day I noticed the toning was gone & color of the coin completely changed to a greenish color.

My question is, was the color artificial, or was this coin exhibiting some sort of advanced Environmental damage under the toning that caused this damage? The color progression and cartwheel luster led me to believe it was genuinely toned, but the spotting on the reverse makes me think something else was going on..I dont think VerdiCare was the culprit as I have had many other coins successfully conserved, including toned coins. I'd also note I have many other toned coins in this same album for years that have not had any ED develop as this one did in under a year it's been in the album.


Before (taken before the spot below "O" developed)





After (under LED, and regular lighting)






*** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by Steelers72
01/16/2020 9:49 pm
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 Posted 01/16/2020  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Check Fuzzy317's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All Lincoln Cents are considered Modern coins by CCF. I moved your post to the appropriate section for the proper attention.
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 Posted 01/16/2020  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks natural to me
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 Posted 01/17/2020  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did you rinse the coin after the treatment? Picture doesn't look green to me, but it doesn't look right either. Could be lighting I guess but your eyes tell you the true color.

"Place a small drop of product on the tip of a wooden implement such as a toothpick. DO NOT USE PLASTIC TO HELP AVOID SCRATCHING. Carefully touch the
moistened tip to the spot being treated forming a dome over the area. Allow the area to soak from 1 to 10 minutes (do not let product evaporate).
2) While still wet, work the residue using a gentle up and down tapping motion until the desired results are obtained. Rubbing can be more effective but take care not to
physically rub-off underlying patina! Less physical action is better to reduce the risk of damaging the surface.
3) SEE DRYING BELOW
NOTE: VERDI-CARE™ will not remove black carbon spots, etched finger prints or other permanent organic deposits due to its gentle nature. It is designed to leave the coin patina
and natural, original imperfections intact. It will only remove loosely adhered surface debris and light to moderate verdigris. Please read the FAQ document for more information"

"DIRECTIONS FOR USE AS A SOAK AND CONDITIONER/PROTECTANT:
NOTE: Recommended for uncirculated and delicate coins - but less effective at removing surface debris. VERDI-CARE™ IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR PROOF COINS.
1) Place the specimen into a filled, covered container -OR- add just enough VERDI-CARE™ to cover the surface of the coin. DO NOT ALLOW THE SOLUTION TO
EVAPORATE.
2) Soak one side of the coin for a few seconds or until the desired results are obtained, then flip the coin to expose the opposite side to the product for an equivalent time (if
required). Soaking either side for longer than 24 hours is not recommended. DO NOT OVER EXPOSE THE COIN. It should be removed from solution as soon as the
desired results are obtained. As with ANY chemical (even water), a change in the patina and/or coin surface may result from unnecessary over-exposure."

Ok so, looks like you likely let it soak way too long by leaving it overnight according to the instructions at least, it say to just do it long enough to get to your desired results and that a change in patina color or coin surface could result. otherwise all other directions seems to have been followed.

It's my understanding if it's left overnight it can change the coins color. Not sure if it's the metal or it's the toning layer that takes the change though, but I've read that people that have left a coin to soak overnight on accident have found their coin severely discolored, at least that what they reported happening. And it's hit or miss it seems, some get away with it without discoloration, some don't, which leads me to believe it has more to do with the toning layer being affected, or the patina, but I'm not sure if it could be corrected, it may be the copper that has been affected also.


on the Bright side, it could have been a much more valuable copper coin it happened to :)

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 Posted 01/17/2020  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's crazy, I've never seen VC do anything like that. At this point, I'd give a soak over night in DI water to see what happens.

On another note, I have removed light toning before with VC. Mainly that very light red toning that appears on modern cents....which I like. VC will INSTANTLY remove that wispy, red toning.

I keep my VC away from lightly toned coins for fear of it removing it. Obviously, I don't recommend using VC on toned coins at all unless it's old and well developed, even then, it's a huge risk as it would be using ANYTHING. I even get paranoid about using acetone or xylene on toned coins - I've had some bad experiences there.
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 Posted 01/17/2020  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I soaked the coin with a few drops over night, and when I went to remove & dry the next day I noticed the toning was gone & color of the coin completely changed to a greenish color.

I think that's the reason why it changed color . Your not supposed to just distribute Verdi-Care on a coin and then let it sit overnight like that . Do Not let it dry on the coin .
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 Posted 08/01/2020  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Steelers72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I completely forgot I made a thread for this. I soaked it in an airtight container so the verdicsre would not evaporate off the surface.

I actually soaked in di water, like BadThad mentioned. No changes, still the same loss of color. But then I put in a napkin in sunlight to see if the color would return naturally. In a few months Ill post the results.

I got this coin on the cheaper side, so I just chalk it as a small loss. But it is wild, considering I never had an issue with VC. If anything, any coin I treat with VerdiCare comes out real nice!
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 Posted 08/02/2020  09:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My question is, was the color artificial,


Yes, your very first, top picture with a very pronounced,deep rainbow toning indicates an artificial toning on the coin, although as mentioned a prolonged soaking of coins in VC it will damage the coin's finish, but it will not wipe out a natural toning of a coin completely!
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 Posted 08/02/2020  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Impossible to be 100% certain, but I'd say 90% chance this is AT'd.
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 Posted 08/03/2020  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You also have to remember that colors in toning are the result of thin film interference on the light passing through the film. If I remember correctly Vedicare is supposed to leave a protective film behind, that could cause a change in the color, or the color could have been the result of a thin film of something on the surfaces of the coin which was removed. That would change the color as well.
Gary Schmidt
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