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Graded Coin Mischief....

 
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New Member
Canada
47 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  1:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Show of hands how many of you have seen/purchased coins in holders that looked as though they had been swapped in place of something better. And whether you think this happens frequently or not? Thinking specifically of coins that look cleaned where there's no indication of it in the grade. But open to other forms of malfeasance.
Valued Member
United States
336 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been seeing more and more warnings on this on tv. I think the best way is to verify the coin by its pictures matching the certification number on the grader's slab label/website's verification page and simply punch in the certification number and see what you got... if there are any pictures there. Then look very closely and see if you can see anything obvious. If you cannot see a certification number on the slab, ask. Ask them if you are getting the very same coin that is pictured on the internet/ebay. An honest dealer will take a few minutes to put you at ease, especially with big ticket items. Look at the small print, some listings specify that you will get a coin SIMILAR to it. This is why a lot of dealers blank out the certification numbers as they do not want it grabbed off the internet. If they cannot or will not provide you with a picture of it (tell them you want to see a certain object in the picture, like a hand with 3 fingers showing, or something like that so you can feel better they did not grab it off the internet. Make up a story to justify it, that you got burned before that way, etc. Check their feedback. Otherwise, do not take the chance if they do not pass the basic smell test. Personally, I would not buy anything from China... not to infer anything bad about them, but what the heck are they doing with so many American coins? Plus you have to deal with customs and the wait and all that stuff. Just my opinion, I have never bought a coin from China tho... so I guess I am paranoid.
Edited by 4504
01/25/2020 2:50 pm
New Member
Canada
47 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
paranoia is contagious!
Pillar of the Community
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United States
2953 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen a few, but why would I ever buy one?

New Member
Canada
47 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2020  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Accidentally I guess. I've done it myself - twice I'm pretty sure. Sort of a 'buyer beware' moment for me. I'm relatively new at this (returned to the hobby after a 40 year hiatus about 2 years ago) and everything has changed in a very big way. Among the pieces of advice I've gathered, one dealer advised me to only buy graded coins. Left out the 'buy the coin not the holder' part so I guess I've now done that once or twice. Lesson learned.

Now that I've been burned I feel like I'm seeing it constantly - mostly ICCS graded coins for what that's worth. I guess it's relatively easy to pop one of those holders open and reseal it so that it looks legit.

Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2020  02:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bwteen the USA and Canada it is by far a Canadian problem with the plastic flips being used as slabs. Flips can be opened and resealed insanely easier than actual slabs which are incredibly hard as an understatement to actually pull that off. As someone with no financial interest in the Canadian market I would encourage Canadian collectors to start asking for actual slabs over flips that were replaced in the US long ago for a reason.
New Member
Canada
47 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2020  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A lot of Canadians are with you on that one basebal21 - the ICCS is apparently losing market share like there's no tomorrow.

I got thinking about this because last year, when I was still on the upward trajectory of the learning curve about all this stuff, I bought an 1858 20 cent piece, graded EF-40. In terms of the actual details on the coin it is certainly EF-40 but as I dug into the weird world of cleaning/re-toning and other crazy stuff, I've come to realize that this coin has been messed with. It's not clear whether it was mis-graded or inserted into a folder that was accurate graded.

Oh well, live and learn; but the coin and not the holder....
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2020  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I got thinking about this because last year, when I was still on the upward trajectory of the learning curve about all this stuff, I bought an 1858 20 cent piece, graded EF-40. In terms of the actual details on the coin it is certainly EF-40 but as I dug into the weird world of cleaning/re-toning and other crazy stuff, I've come to realize that this coin has been messed with. It's not clear whether it was mis-graded or inserted into a folder that was accurate graded.


I don't know enough about them to know what the likelihood is you just disagree with the grade, or it was net graded, or if they're just easy on some cleanings etc. What I have seen it does seem like they're less likely to give a coin a details grade than the US TPGs though.

I can see the appeal for flips on cheap coins to keep grading costs down, but I always treat anything sealed in flips as raw
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