Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

1944 Lincoln Wheat Cent - Oddity: Too Small, Major Doubling, Whatzit?

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United States
2239 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  12:43 am Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This was in a mug (an old Batman TV show mug of course) where I threw oddities years ago. Just thought it was a filed down coin and all, but gave it a second look today.

The key to my problem with the coin just being a weird bit of purposeful damage is this... There is the word GOD, raised, starting from the T in TRUST. Not sure how that got there.

Something to ponder, and any help working out what the story is with this one would be appreciated.

1944 Lincoln Wheat cent - oddity: 2.61g, 17.8mm diameter in all directions, doubled motto











New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  03:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rustjunky67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
....
Bedrock of the Community
United States
32688 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  05:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did the U.S. mint make any coins for foreign countries that year that fit the specs?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Pillar of the Community
United States
1835 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  06:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TB , someone really had fun with that one !
A soft die was used on the obverse with the reverse against something like concrete. The coin may have been ground down in diameter first as the edges seem to slope down smoothly.
Had the planchet been smaller to start with , design elements like the L of Liberty would have stretched out and disappeared like is seen happening at a clip.
The soft die left GOD, the bottom tips of the W of WE and the bottom of one of the 4's of the date on Abes shoulder.
The strike against concrete also flattened the reverse in the appropriate opposing places.
Quite cool actually.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1093 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  07:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hadn't thought of soft dies causing this but other things stand out.
(Foreign planchet was my first thought as well but...)

1)The secondary GOD appears to be rotated about 45 degrees in a clockwise direction. (Possible "I" between US of TRUST?)

2)The overall weakness of the reverse strike makes me think it was underweight when it was struck. (Not from the edges being ground down to reduce the diameter.)

3)The bumpy texture of the "O" of ONE and "EN" of CENT reminds me of the raw bumpy look to the edge of a ragged clip. (Not rolled out properly?) Not like PSD I'd expect to see from concrete or pavement. Too well contained to the letters and not affecting the fields.

4)Diameter is 88% of normal specs.
Weight is 84% of normal specs.

a)Wouldn't these two % be the same if the rims were ground down?


Two things that come to mind that cause secondary design elements (excluding DDO & DDR of course) are double struck or counter clash.

Seems like most counter clashes have the secondary details limited to a small area.

Looking forward to seeing more info on this one
Pillar of the Community
United States
1093 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The metal composition would need to be known to really consider a foreign planchet.

But planchets that meet the following criteria (1943/44, Philly, copper alloy, 2.5-2.8 grams & 16-18mm to allow for tolerances) would be:
1)1944 Ecuador 5 centavo ..... (2.0g, 17.0mm)
2)1943 El Salvador 1 Centavo .. (2.5g, 16.0mm)
3)1944 Ethiopia 1 Centime ..... (2.85g,17.0mm)
4)1944 Nicaragua 1 Centavo .... (2.5g, 18.0mm)
5)1944 Peru 5 Centavo ........ (3.0g, 17.0mm)
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
46142 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's over my pay grade.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2239 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  10:23 am  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An interesting one indeed.

I am leery of the "edges ground down" theory because of two things. First, the coin is perfectly round and looking at the edge itself one sees a smooth flow coming frim the obverse side and a very regular matte pattern below a waving line to the reverse side. Can't see how grinding creates that look. Second, if the tapering down at the rim on the obverse were ground that way then the L of LIBERTY should be damaged or gone but it just slopes down along with everything else.

My thought is that the coin was punched with a circular punch from the obverse side, removing the rim and forcing the slope and pushing a bit of metal down flat along the edge.

Also been thinking about dimes. Since this would match the punch size of a dime planchet, the dime puncher could have perfectly hit an already struck penny.

But seriously, the whole dime punch thing seems ridiculous and just tossing out random things, as the doubling strongly suggests a soft die is involved here somewhere and not mint processes.

Last thing I am wondering about is how the left wheat on the reverse seems to have a somewhat real-looking rim very close to it. Possible flattening of whatever was left in that area after the coin was punched and then soft died?

Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
43240 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But they do cut coins to make them smaller:
Ground down:


Outside edge cut:




Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Bedrock of the Community
United States
32688 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2020  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back then people did cut them down to mimic a dime.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.12 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05