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1892 Barber 25c You Vs PCGS

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Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2020  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah okay, thanks grape.
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 Posted 03/30/2020  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wideglide to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you're basically paying someone to "grade the grader"?
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 03/30/2020  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So you're basically paying someone to "grade the grader"?


Sort of - in a nutshell YES.

While there can be say 100 or the same date/mint mark Morgan dollars all graded at MS65 but some look better than others, technically they are all the same grade (for the sake of the example).

A few (maybe 10-15) are on the very high end of the MS65 scale or even better, while a good many others (60-75) are just average and a few might be questionable in a MS65 holder (maybe 15-20).

The CAC grades the coin based on the TPG and the Grade assigned, so a green sticker (green bean) is a coin that is above the average MS65 coin but not better than MS65, while a Gold Sticker indicates this coin is exceptional value for the MS65 grade, possibly undergraded by a point or more, and has seriously above average eye appeal, possibly incredible toning that adds to the value.

MS65 coins rejected by CAC will be ugly toned, dark, generally just not attractive or on the very low end of the grade assigned by the TPG, or possibly even over-graded.

The very first company I can recall that did this was Richard (Rick) Snow of Eagle Eye Coins, he only does it for Indian cents and Flying Eagle cents. His brand is called "Photo Seal"
https://www.indiancent.com/photoseal/

Here is some more information available on CAC at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certi..._Corporation

Since this is more for a discussion I will do a bit more writing on it and post over on the TPG forum instead of here on GrapeCollects grading thread. Since he works for one of the "Old School" dealers himself he may also have some valuable input on CAC coins. https://www.caccoin.com/
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
03/31/2020 12:07 am
Pillar of the Community
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6942 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2020  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More or less Wideglide. The point is to ensure and disinguish quality coins within the market. Very important for high grades and rarities. Nobody wants to pay an MS-68 price for a MS-67 or MS-66. But would happily pay a small premium for a choice 68.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: http://goccf.com/t/359443&whichpage=1
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 03/31/2020  12:00 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Annndd time to show you all how overgraded it was! The answer? Very!
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: http://goccf.com/t/359443&whichpage=1
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2020  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. So you're basically paying someone to "grade the grader"?


Yae and nae, CAC is basically one of American numismatics biggest names, who applies strict grading standards to coins and compares the TPGs grades to his own, if he stickers a coin, then that means he feels it's at least solid for the grade, so you have his highly held opinion to back up your coin as well as the TPG's, assuming he stickers it.

It's IMO mostly a marketing thing, but some people only buy coins that are CAC graded, which I personally find silly, especially if people are letting that be the deal or no deal if they buy a coin or not, because even though the guy at CAC (John Albenese I believe His name is, might be mistaken though) is one of American numismatics biggest names, I find he stickers some meh and average looking coins. Of course it's a lot more understandable as his opinion of a good coin is decided by him and him only, just like everyone else's opinion on what a nice coin is, whereas a TPG grade, though also subjective as well, is a lot more 'by the books'.

Basically I think some collectors need to focus more on what they find to be a nice coin, aside from what the market thinks, assuming that they're buying for their own collection.

Sorry about breaking this soap box, whomever left it here
Valued Member
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 Posted 03/31/2020  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. Annndd time to show you all how overgraded it was! The answer? Very!


Unfortunately someone will probably pay close to retail for this just because of PCGS' reputation., Marketing a coin like this, even when it's over graded is beyond easy.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 03/31/2020  12:28 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW, Grape, I thought it might be MS67 the TrueView photos looked much nicer, If I saw just the photo of the slab, I might have gone MS65+ or maybe 66 the coin is much more cloudy or hazy than I thought, though the color in toning is still choice IMO. The marks on the back of the neck seem to be more prevalent as well, I thought maybe they weren't as deep as they show to be now. If the price is right, it's still a good looking coin, I agree over graded by PCGS by a point or a point and a half.

1892 is by far and away the most graded date of the series. and MS66-67 coins are fairly abundant compared to other dates and mint marks, so if this coins is a heck of a deal then I'd consider it, however bear in mind 1892 MS67 have gone from almost $5000 in 2015 to under $2000 today MS66 coins have not changed much in price during the same time frame. MS68 really took a hit.

I see this one sold at the lastest Kagin auction - https://www.PCGS.com/auctionprices/...878441635953 at the February ANA show.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 03/31/2020  12:32 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Westcoin, they're asking $2700. I'm not biting at that price. If they marked it at a MS66 price, I'd take it right now.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: http://goccf.com/t/359443&whichpage=1
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Pillar of the Community
United States
7242 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2020  12:43 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah a $660 mark-up in about 25 days on a coin that has been going down in value the past 5 years, probably right on to pass. It was probably over priced at the ANA auction too, but purchased for the holder alone, that's an eBay coin all day long. It might even make them a $1000 just because of the grade and the color might cause some to overlook the dig/dings.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
United States
6942 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2020  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess....

Buy the coin not the holder doesn't apply anymore
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: http://goccf.com/t/359443&whichpage=1
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1824 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2020  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grape,

With the registry sets, buying the holder is more important than the coin.
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2020  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. Grape,

With the registry sets, buying the holder is more important than the coin.


It's all about bragging rights as far as I can see. How the majority of collectors haven't figured this out is a mystery to me.
Pillar of the Community
United States
924 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2020  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon Brand to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice coin but Id have also said 66. I think the hits on the face can technically make it 65 but its good looking to me. Probably has nice luster in person.
View Collection: jbknifeandcoin.com
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