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Interesting 1962 P Jefferson Nickel With Insane Machine Doubling.

 
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 Posted 05/10/2020  11:26 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Davere to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello again. Hope everyone is having an awesome vacation. I found this 1962 Jeff. nickel a while back and it appeared to be in pretty decent condition until I put a scope on it. I found that nearly all the devices on both the Ob. and Rev. were doubled. I couldn't get all the doubling on camera. I think what I did get should be enough for you experienced treasure hunters to see whats happening with it. 5.0g weight. What I'm trying to find out what process created it and of course is it something to share with the world or keep as a personal treasure. I just bought a top shelf scale and have a couple other questions. Pictures can be provided if needed. I have two 1971 D LMC. one weighs 3.25 and the other weighs 2.84. The planchets are not that far apart in thickness but the underweight cent has very weak struck details. The color difference makes me consider that different alloys may be an issue. I know toning and tarnishing isn't equal to all coins of the same age. However, The color difference is very noticeable. The initials on the UW cent looks like two or three tiny scratches without visual aid, and it still took some imagination to fill in missing parts under magnification. The UW coin also has a floating roof, and Abe can be barely seen. There isn't a lot of wear on either coin. I guess what I want to know is.... should I be looking somewhere else to find the answer as to why these weights are so far out of spec.? Is it worth selling, or as before kept as a novelty of sorts? One more quick question. If a proof dime were in circulation for up to 45 years and the reeds were pretty much flattened down(However enough remain that all the reeds could be counted or measured), along with the rims being smoothed flush with the field in some areas on the reverse. Are there other ways to definitively tell that it is indeed a proof dime. I should say "that it was" indeed a proof dime. With all these signs missing (including the S mint mark of course), Is there a way to know that this dime was struck twice and a completely different process was used to create its finish and planchet? Maybe alloy content that can be laser scanned.... or the reeds are completely different in size/shape or number? I know the surface of the coin cannot be used to determine its origin at this point. Its pitted and has scratches and dings like any other 45 year old business struck coin. I was told at a coin shop that it may have been a proof at one time but that there just wasn't enough left. The coin dealer also stated that my coin was too Shiny to be a proof coin. I do know for a fact it was cleaned with gentle soap and water, never polished. I did rub it between my fingers with cloth, so if thats polishing.....Im guilty. Ányway Its a personal treasure now.Thanks in advance for allowing me to pick your brains again.








Edited by Davere
05/11/2020 8:09 pm
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47757 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2020  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The best way to show Machine Doubling is to use arrows to show it.



It saves a lot of typing and reading. Extreme?

This one I would consider as extreme Machine Doubling:

But no premium for Machine Doubling. To me they are just a damaged coin. (Machine damaged the devices right after the strike)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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393 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2020  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sosicoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, Davere. Can you discuss one coin at a time in a single thread. Start with your 1962 Jefferson nickel by posting full pictures of the obverse & reverse then focus on your coin issues. That way, the experts can address your concerns. You might want to start a new thread.

Don't rub your coin with cloth. Learn from the experts on how to manage your coin.

Thanks.

Enjoy the hobby.....
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393 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2020  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sosicoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Davere, you are getting the best information from an awesome teacher, Coop.

Thanks as always, Coop... You got me in a heartbeat... Lol
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18202 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2020  05:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@davere, it looks like MD indeed on this nickel. It is interesting for sure, although "insane" seems like hyperbole.

Also, I'd be interested to see pics of your impaired proof dime in a separate thread.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 05/11/2020  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Davere to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its not the the spread thats out there, its the depth of the initial strike that is amazing. The die had to have bounced well above the coins rim in order for the coin to have moved horizontally the distance you see in the dome photo. Either that or this is a double struck coin with a minor offset. The thickness of the offset metal just to the right of the dome is nearly as thick as (from that point) up to its highest point. Not only are most all devices doubled horizontally on the reverse its also doubled vertically. On the obverse its different. Here The second strike overlapped the first. Which caused a deep squared vertical edge that you see in Abe's profile photo. I know it takes time to educate others, so I do appreciate those who help others and myself shorten research time. I do value your opinions however I'm also looking for facts which are based on experience and common numastic science. Cause and effect... stuff like that. I know my photos weren't in 3D so here I hope I was successful in clarifying this error. MDing is going to happen. Unwanted Vibrations causing minor shadow doubling doesn't bring a premiums to its value. If a machine causes a coin to fail the mints level of acceptance for distribution shouldn't it be called a mint error, and not a damaged coin? Since MD is acceptable for distribution it really doesn't fall into either category. Just like minor offset and double strikes. There has to be a point where even these foreseen mistakes cross a line and would no longer be considered an acceptable product by the mint for distribution. When a mistake is so large and out of tolerance that it becomes a rarity isn't it then classified as a mint error? Of course it is. One or two percent of offset is acceptable but at 30% it becomes an error. Using this as a guide I dont see how any of a coins attributes or properties created by the U.S. mints machinery during manufacture could be called damaged after leaving the mint. Either they are within tolerance/acceptable or they are mint errors. If coins are dropped or mishandled by employees thats different. I'm going to stop asking questions on here because there is something wrong with my discription and photos. Feedback is always negative. I'm wasting my time here. The coins I have tried to gain knowledge of by my (ineffective) descriptions and photos aren't having the desired outcome I'd hoped for. It takes time and effort to upload pictures to new topics. Then trying to redescribe photos and attributes is taking too much effort. I guess its back to googling for information. I will ask one other thing as a last ditch effort. Where can a fella find the information needed to utilize this website effectively as a learning tool? I know education is expensive so whos taking retainers? Is this the way it works? Please let me know. Ive been blessed with finding rare things. Now I need a place to exhibit and share. thank you
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 Posted 05/11/2020  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Where can a fella find the information needed to utilize this website effectively as a learning tool? I know education is expensive so whos taking retainers? Is this the way it works?


All of our opinions are offered free of charge if for no other reason than we love coins. As for a primer, I suggest reading through the last page or two of threads in this subforum (US Modern Variety and Error Coins). You will see a few absolute gems plus a whole bunch of coins with damage. There are many other websites which could be helpful, including error-ref.com.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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United States
894 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2020  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That much Machine Doubling is not uncommon on nickels of that era. No premium.
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 Posted 05/11/2020  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Need more information here. Click on to this link: CoopHome . It will take to three pages on another thread that shows where you can find information I've posted on threads on various subjects. Some threads can have over 100+ images.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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4516 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2020  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Machine Doubling is considered by most to be damage (not a perfect coin). But to each their own. True doubling IS not considered damage and is more a collectible error coin worthy of a premium.

While we enjoy reading your thoughts, please use paragraphs to make your writing more readable. Thank you.
ça va bien aller

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