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1940 Lincoln Wheat Cent Mint Error - Retained Cud (None Listed)

 
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 Posted 05/26/2020  11:02 pm Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have had no time to do much searching, let alone posting lately. But after everything today decided to go through a couple coins and post the first thing of any interest I found.

This one is a 1940 Wheat cent with a retained cud on the reverse. Pretty standard-issue error, other than that no retained cuds from 1940-P coins are listed on cuds-on-coins.com. Lots of 1940-S of course, but none from Philadelphia. That made it my first find of the evening and worth posting.

The coin has obviously been cleaned, but I'll do up some images to see about getting it listed sometime in the next couple of days when some time magically appears.

1940 Lincoln Wheat cent mint error - retained cud



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 Posted 05/26/2020  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice find.
I've noticed that before about the 1940S having beau coup, but Philly, not so much.
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 Posted 05/26/2020  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Roughly speaking, there are 93 retained cuds known from 1940-S on cuds-on-coins.com. Most were found and listed by a fine gentleman and friend of mine who started collecting cuds many years ago before I even knew what they were. My contributions to this date came late, but I have one new die stage and five new retained cuds listed so still things to find. It's comparable in date only to the 1943 coins for quantity of cuds and retained cuds produced in the wheat series (1983 is another story when they switched to zinc).

But so far there are none from Denver for this year, and just this one lonely example from Philadelphia. It would be an interesting numismatic question as to why the dies in San Francisco chipped up so much, while the dies in the other two mints almost did not at all.

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 Posted 05/26/2020  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice find! I find cuds are very uncommon in my bags/rolls. Errors in general are gems. I hope you have some luck with whatever more you hunt!

-CH27
"Time is the coin of life. Only you can determine how it will be spent" -Carl Sandburg

Collector of Varieties and Errors of all kinds


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 Posted 05/27/2020  12:22 am  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CoinHunter! The rest of the maybe 250 coins I went through were nothing special, so just a single find tonight. Now off to bed as I haven't slept much in the last few days and have to be at work tomorrow. Been a wild ride lately and happy to have had the time to score one good one.
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 Posted 05/27/2020  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It would be an interesting numismatic question as to why the dies in San Francisco chipped up so much, while the dies in the other two mints almost did not at all.


Agreed. Maybe @coop knows?
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 Posted 05/27/2020  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting question about why they seem to almost exclusively be contained to the San Fran mint.

Since Philly produced the dies during this era and sent them to the other mints I would think it had to do with the equipment, not the bar stock. Whether it was loose dies contacting the collar or tilting to repeatedly strike one side more than another they seem to be mostly contained to the east and west areas, near the wheat lines.

I wonder if the Feeder Finger scrapes we see on the reverse during the early '40s have any correlation? I've never made note of whether they are on the coins from one mint more than another. Has anyone else made notes about the mints for these Feeder Finger scrapes?
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 Posted 05/27/2020  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RobO411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's true about Feeder fingers. Just wondering do they run in same direction? N-S, E-W or ? Any other direction? Lol does that make sense?
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 Posted 05/27/2020  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Check SilverCents's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great find Tropicalbats! I hope all is well and you aren't too stressed.
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 Posted 05/27/2020  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not bad Tbats, now where's the good stuff at? Break out some specimens with juice!
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 Posted 05/27/2020  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome find tropicalbats!
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 Posted 05/27/2020  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very cool for sure.
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 Posted 05/28/2020  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it possible that San Francisco simply ran their dies longer because they were further from Philadelphia and were dependent upon them for their dies. If die shipments were slow they may have had to use the dies they had even if they were breaking up. Denver was closer, and of course Philadelphia was making the dies so they always had a ready supply to replace dies once they started to break. How does 1940 compare to surrounding years?
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 Posted 05/29/2020  12:49 am  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Surrounding years have a few, but not a lot. It's 1940-S that has gobs for whatever reason.
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 Posted 05/29/2020  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is it possible that San Francisco simply ran their dies longer because they were further from Philadelphia and were dependent upon them for their dies.


IMHO, I don't think that "running their dies longer" would be the cause in this case, since San Fran would have received the proper quantity initially to meet their production goals. (The same compared to Denver anyway.) If they needed more dies because of faulty bar stock, it seems Denver would have the same issue.(ie: an average number of coins per die pair- unless SF was unlucky enough to get all the dies from bad bar stock.)

I really feel it has to do with excessive stress placed on the dies in these areas in the San Fran mint in 1940 for some reason.

Lots of equipment to oversee and attend to. It might be as simple as an inexperienced newbie or hurried veteran worker not tightening something properly allowing movement or tilting East to West. This tilting could cause the dies to receive excessive and repetitive pressure in these areas.

We can't even know if human stress a year before the US joined WWII may have been a factor in a mint worker's focus adjusting the equipment.

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 Posted 05/29/2020  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the obverses, the dies drop the cuds sooner. But on the reverse the collar keeps them in place a lot longer. Thus you can see when on a foreign coin, the metal can move and continue to strike retained cuds.
Richard S. Cooper
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