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Coin Damaged And Strong Patina(Id: Republic Of Siena, Parpagliola Or Fraction, Late 15th/Early 16th)

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Valued Member

Italy
180 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2020  9:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add manry to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello, someone can recognize this coin?
Find near austria.
Thxxxxxx

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United States
3532 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2020  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first picture looks like it could have a large S monogram? The small schillings/solidus minted under Sigismund III of Poland have this design, but I don't think this is the right match based on the small amount of lettering I can see.

Valued Member
Italy
180 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2020  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So good was your help, I will wait for other ideas. I will clean this coin? Clearly is silver
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United States
16448 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2020  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@manry, I would not clean this coin (yet). Can you please post the diameter and weight? And I think that @tdz might be right about the large, potentially floriated S monogram.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 05/29/2020  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
However, I think the Polish types always have a crown above the "S" which I do not see on this coin.
Here are examples of the only types I could find with the legend SOLIDVS REGNI POLO on the side with the S monogram (which fits the letters VS at 5:00-6:00, but not much else):
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces167324.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces167327.html
Valued Member
Italy
180 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2020  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply




Spence the diameter is 2.1cm.
The weight is less of 1 gram
Valued Member
Italy
180 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2020  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyway thx to all you great support
Valued Member
Italy
180 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2020  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
News




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United States
1088 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2020  12:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think its a silver Quattrino from the Republic of Siena
Similar to this one.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces88960.html

I think I can read [vi]ena [Vet]vs civ so maybe an issue for a city ending in O?

This wiki page has an interesting map of their expansion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Siena
Valued Member
Italy
180 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2020  06:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very appreciate help and GREAT the Siena republic is ok
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16448 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2020  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@gc, I think that you are onto something as Sienna looks like a pretty good match for that central letter S. The Quattrinos of that time measure more like 16 or 17 mm in diameter and the S doesn't take up quite as much of the real estate on the obv, but I think that you have us pretty close.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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United States
1088 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2020  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hopefully someone else can get us all the way there, I can't find any reference online. I may have to buy some books.
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3532 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2020  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Gincoin, Wow! Nice job. I will try to dive into CNI in the next few days, which should have more options for a positive ID.
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United States
1088 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2020  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is CNI? Searching it brings up California Numismatic Investments or Canadian National Railway.
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3532 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2020  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Corpus Nummorum Italicorum (Vol. XI Toscana - Zecche Minori)

I think it is the next denomination up, 1/2 perpagliola, second half of 15th century, which has a legend on the "S" side SENA VETVS CIVTAS VIRGI, or a variant. On the other side there is a floriate cross, and legend ALFA ET O PRINCIPIV FINIS (or variant). We can see FA ET from 10:00-12:00, and INI at 6:00-7:00 in the last photo.
Mass is quite variable, but usually 0.9-1.0 g, and diameter 18-19 mm. The next larger denomination (parpagliola = 1/2 grosso) has a different design.

I think @spence has Biaggi, and may be able to check this?

Siena Republic, 2d half 15th century, 1/2 parpagliola CNI #57-65. https://www.numismaticadellostato.i...ction=invoke p. 378

Edited by tdziemia
06/02/2020 10:50 pm
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United States
16448 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdz, yes between your CNI and my Biaggi, we would seem to have most all of medieval Italy covered but this coin is still not completely settled in my mind. I am struggling with this coin still because as you point out, the weight and/or diameter are off. During the first two thirds of the Sienna Republic (1404 to 1555), both Half and Full Paragliolas were minted. The full ones are 22 or 23 mm in diameter and 1.9 to 2.0 g. The halves are 17 or 18 mm in diameter and 1.3 g.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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