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1881 Large Cent Grading Opinions

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 323Next Topic  
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Canada
631 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  2:38 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Curious to know what you guys think this 1881 large cent would grade at.

Now that I have my new microscope I finally get to take full photos of my coins. Hopefully these are good enough, still messing with the settings but this is the true colour of the coin in hand.




Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
612 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tfred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VF range
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United States
49451 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say VG details (cleaned and re-toned).
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United States
3052 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About F-15 and cleaned.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
21181 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
F-12 details, cleaned.
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Canada
631 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you guys for the replies! Quick question, how do you guys determine when a coin is cleaned? This is a grey area for me, I can never really figure it out unless its extremely obvious.

I purchased this coin off ebay mainly because I dont have any large canadian cents in my collection but I would really like to be able to tell as easily as you guys can.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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United States
3052 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For Vicky large cents, you will normally find "Vicky gunk" in all the nooks and crannies. If you have an low EF or below and there is none, then it's been cleaned. Vicky gunk is the combines of hand oil and dirt from years of circulation.
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United States
1497 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2020  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
F Details, cleaned. That said, your coin doesn't have a terrible appearance. It has re-toned quite a bit.

One of the clues to a cleaned copper coin is red (or red-orange) color in the fields and deep recesses of central devices of an older coin that grades below AU. It can't be mint luster, so it has to be evidence of an older cleaning that is still re-toning. Note the color creating a "halo" around the portrait on your coin. This would be mint luster on a higher AU coin, but shouldn't exist at all on a coin below EF-40. The color itself is also wrong for luster. It has a dull orangy-red tone that suggests copper cleaner.

@okiecoiner makes a really good point on the "Vicky gunk." The detailed design elements (denticles, dots, leaves and vines, etc.) definitely were crud-snags.

Silver coins are a bit tougher. The major TPGs all say that "dipping isn't cleaning," but they all treat over-dipping as cleaning. Over-dipping creates a flat surface appearance on coins that should have cartwheel luster. On circulated silver coins, an older cleaning that has re-toned may well be market acceptable, and straight grade. Harsh cleaning, such as rubbing, almost always leaves surface scratching, and is never market acceptable. A staggering percentage of the silver British North American (pre-Confederation) coins have been cleaned. At least 80% of the Newfoundland twenty cent and fifty cent coins that I see have been cleaned. In short, look for flatness where luster should be, surface scratching, and coins that are toned too lightly for their grade and age.

Some of the cleaned coins on eBay are painful. There is one seller of Canadian and Provincial coins and tokens who brags of using a Dremel tool with a brass brush to "improve" his coins. He "improved"one pre-Confederation token from a $300+ example to worthless copper shrapnel. Another seller of US Morgan dollars and world silver coins "improves" circulated coins to what he calls "MS++++" coins with harsh abrasion and silver polish. It actually hurts to see their listings.

Just some thoughts.
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2020  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RCM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thank you guys for the replies! Quick question, how do you guys determine when a coin is cleaned?


Unnaturally bright surfaces relative to the wear level is a sure-fire sign, but so are dark tone-shadows around the devices that can be extremely hard to remove via typical cleaning methods. On circulated coinage, magnification will reveal whether its 'gunk' buildup from circulation or remnants of toning left behind in the fields/around the devices when the coin was cleaned.

F/Old Cleaning/Natural retoning.
Edited by RCM
07/07/2020 10:19 pm
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