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No Mint Mark On 1785 Reales 8

 
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 Posted 07/10/2020  9:38 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Hal2Pro to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
My father and I collected Charles III, IIII Reales, and on his passing, I was given his collection. Half the coins he bought was from eBay, so I'msure I have at least 2 fake 8 reales. This one being a prime candidate.
Its a 1785 8reales, with No mint mark?!? The assayers are FM so Mexico must be the mint. Coin weighs a fat 29.26g.
I read that due to penalty of death would the striker alter the coins. So its a slim-to-none change its a mint error. ...but I can hope. Any input would be great!



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 Posted 07/10/2020  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hal2Pro

Your instincts about the 1785 8 Reales with no mint mark are correct it is not genuine.

I believe it is likely a Contemporary Circulating type although it lacks any test cuts (typical of most Contemporary Counterfeits). In addition to the missing mint mark, there is almost nothing about this coin that is correct.

Nice coin. I will add it to my files if you have no objection.

Please post any others that you are suspicious of.

Have you been a collector for a long time? Or are you starting with this inheritance?

If you need help with authentication of any others (even if the look good) just post them. If I don't get right back to you put a note on this thread - it will let me know.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 07/10/2020  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hal2Pro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the speedy reply swamperbob, and thank you very much for the confirmation of that counterfeit. Yes, no objections. Send me notice if you want a clearer image.
This is the other coin I spoke of which I did find to be a fake, and an exact textbook example of the coin found on this site (bottom of web page) http://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=2334
My Father had been collecting coins with a history of Spanish rule, so his collection was Roman to Peso's. After his death, I split the collection and gave my brother everything that wasn't Carlos III or IIII. At this point, I created my coin albums, and started researching his Reales coins further.
My collections are all Spanish related as well. Any reales with a date of 1764 (I was born in 1964), and Spanish military swords (1864 minimum and older). I would say that I started collecting these coins about 15 years ago? I have a complete Lima mint set of 1764 -8 reales, another of Mexico 1764 -8, and just started the Guatemala set. Id love to put them in a mint set holder, but none exist for Spanish Reales that I can find.
I would be very interested to purchase a signed hardcopy of your book. I believe I read somewhere that you were thinking of releasing a new printing due to having a lot of new CD's of data? If this is so, I'll wait for that release, if not, please send me a note so I can acquire the current printing.

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 Posted 07/11/2020  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hal2Pro That particular 8R 1776 has been a problem on eBay since eBay began. It is a Chinese Fake (Numismatic Forgery is what I consider to be an appropriate name for these worthless coins.) The design is completely degenerated to a point where it looks like a cartoon drawing. About 10 years ago it was available for 10 cents each in numbers above 100 copies.

I infer from you last answer that your brother inherited any of the Mexican Cap and Ray coins in your father's collection. I would also like to see his coins as well to see how many counterfeits he has.

My next book project will hopefully be a collaboration of the Counterfeit Cap and Ray 8Rs that are seen in Riddell's Monograph. After that I plan an elaboration of that book to include related types and other counterfeit C&R coins from the same era. Third on the list is an update to my counterfeit Portrait 8Rs.

I am very aware that at my age 73, I may not live to complete the 3 projects. However I will try. I just dodged a bullet when my cardiologist found and corrected a heart defect that could have led to my death at anytime. Both the doctor and I were surprised by the severity of the problem. Nothing serious had shown on any tests but I had an odd pain when resting that he could not explain. I had a blockage of 95% as the result of the defect. Only one artery was effected but it would have killed me. Since then I have a new view of life.

Regarding the Hardcopy edition of my book, the limit of 100 copies has been reached and no more will be authorized. There are still about 110 more soft cover before the 500 total copy limit is reached. Those are available through Amazon directly but I will sign any that are mailed to me. I will return them at no additional cost by Book rate shipping USPS. Other forms of shipment available for the cost difference.

At the present rate the paperback is selling it will take a couple more years to exhaust the intended number of copies for the first edition. I have already located about 125 new examples of the Portrait 8R.

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 07/13/2020  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hal2Pro

I have a somewhat similar collection focused on the year '60' although I don't collect the minors.
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 Posted 07/13/2020  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the update on your book projects, swamperbob, as well as sharing your recent heart issue. I admit that I worry when you don't post here for extended periods.
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 Posted 07/13/2020  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jgenn Thanks for the concern. I guess I came really close. I had no clue how sick I was. Makes me wonder if I will ever finish my project.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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United States
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 Posted 07/13/2020  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hal2Pro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But its safe to say your out of the woods swamperbob?
Its obvious that your a Pillar (sorry) here. Its good to belong and you are certanly encouraging growth.

Thank you for the "Welcome" jbuck and jgenn. I do feel welcomed to the community.

jgenn, I like the format you displayed for your '60's coin collection. Makes it very easy and logical to take it all in.
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 Posted 07/13/2020  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hal2Pro The prognosis is good. Doc says he took care of the problem and even at 72 I am doing well.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 07/28/2020  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hal2Pro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Swamperbob, I received your definitive reference book from Amazon.
Fantastic research work!

Regarding forgeries, I have seen many Charles III reales with a letter I and not the numeral 1 for the millennium placeholder.

On page 149 you say that the number 1 is correct. So can it be safely said that all Charles III reales regardless of mint should have the number and not the letter within the year?



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 Posted 07/28/2020  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hal2Pro I would love to an 8R using a Roman numeral I instead of an Arabic 1. It would have to be a counterfeit and likely a Numismatic Forgery. There are VERY FEW contemporary forgeries known that use the Roman one.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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