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Anyone Think That They Have An 1859 Brass Cent?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 573Next Topic  
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 Posted 08/11/2020  7:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've just answered the same inquiry that pops up a few times a year, every year, and for at least the last 10 years. If you think that you have found an 1859 brass cent, please read my answer on the CaC forum: Here it is, but sometimes the moderator doesn't like CaC links. This should be OK for that however:
http://coinsandcanada.com/forum/vie...?f=19&t=7826
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Canada
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 Posted 08/11/2020  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't link to your answer, copy and paste it here in this thread.
You can't say it often enough.
It'll continue to pop up for at least the next ten years, just like "I found a '36 dot"
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 08/11/2020  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most likely from somebody who would rather have a forum member do the work to explain it to them, rather than do the work themselves and use the search function to read the previous forum discussions.
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 Posted 08/12/2020  07:08 am  Show Profile   Check gidjit's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add gidjit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i dont think the 59 brass is all that rare...everytime I use brasso to clean my 59s I find another 59 brass!
please check out my collection of large cents from 1858 - 1920 (click link below, you DO NOT need a facebook account to view)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...l=4b87156114
also you can see my collection of 1859 die pairs here
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...47995&type=3
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Canada
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 Posted 08/12/2020  08:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tamarin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I do know is that the brass 59's I've seen in ICCS folders didn't convince me at all visually that I was looking at one of the most sought after coins in the Canadian series. Identification is strictly for the professionals.
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 Posted 08/12/2020  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, for the research study for the CN Journal, we XRF'd about 700 total 1859's, as well as about 25 or so that had a yellow appearance, but found no coins that could be called brass. We took coins from early, mid and late strikings, based upon the width of the vine gaps at leaf 7. Early working dies had a very small gap and late ones had one pretty wide. Read the article (Mar 2012)if you can find it.

ICCS used to lightly scratch the edge of the coin and then take it out into the sunlight. If the scratch showed yellowish, then they called it brass. Now, they probably XRF them, but they were using the scratch/sunlight test 10 years ago or less.
Edited by okiecoiner
08/12/2020 10:45 am
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 Posted 08/12/2020  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
i dont think the 59 brass is all that rare...everytime I use brasso to clean my 59s I find another 59 brass!


"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
480 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2020  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Strach-Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I laugh so hard I think I wet myself.
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 Posted 08/12/2020  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Brasso or some other poison will cost you more than the cent u are using it on.
and, consider this: you have left over cleaner poison to make some other large cents appear to be BUNC!!

BUT, there is one question:
what is the right alloy mix to be able to say:
this is a Brass 1859 Cent?

Is it the zinc 5% component?

and how do we know for sure that the "long time ago" Heritage brass 1859 are the real thing?
do we just take their word for it?
Can XRF done trough the slab?
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 Posted 08/12/2020  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
what is the right alloy mix to be able to say:
this is a Brass 1859 Cent?


- greater than 9% Zn, and an absence of Sn (tin) for all the examples I have tested.


Quote:
Can XRF done trough the slab?


- depends on the instrument, yes it is possible, but generally it is not very accurate and results have low precision. The raw coin is preferable.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 08/12/2020  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sure looks like that XRF (with the properly set up machine) is a prerequisite to the statement:
I have an 1859 brass....
(Oh, btw, these machines start at around 35K US....right? )
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 Posted 08/12/2020  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
H .... some of the dealers in Vancouver will do one or two for free if they know you
as a customer .
Personally I could never wrap my head around the significance of a coin
Like the so called 1859 Brass Cent . But obviously there is a demand and it must be
Very elusive!
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 Posted 08/13/2020  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We used 5% in the study with SPP, Bosox and Jaime, the least amount of copper/zinc alloy that could even be called brass. Real brass that we normally visualize will be 10-35% zinc. Here is one of many links that will show you all the different kinds of brass and the various alloys. The 1859 was "brass" by accident, not something that was planned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...opper_alloys
Edited by okiecoiner
08/13/2020 08:34 am
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Canada
966 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2020  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pacific,

Am not close to any dealer in Vancouver, or any dealer in general anywhere.(one excluded in SK). I have my sources and am looking predominantly for varieties. Lately I am inclined to size down my collection. Should I find another brass, I will sell it ... certified.
Some time ago I had a few (handful 59s-not brass "yet") and had our friend J. in Nanaimo check some. Nada... but I did not see the results on a print out (just verbal) and I did keep the coins. They were all very yellow brassie looking.
Too bad, Victoria is canceled... for several reasons.
H
Believe it or not, he purchased a machine from a jeweller who closed shop in the shopping center on the way out of town..when I went back to have another 2 done, a few months later his daughter wanted to charge me.......go figure...business must be really good to turn back prospective coin business in favor of jewelry.
Anyway, brass has no priority for me... If it comes, it comes....
H
Edited by 47P7
08/13/2020 11:37 am
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