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1483-1485 English Penny Of Richard III

 
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1411 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2020  12:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CCFPress to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
NGC - Coin of the Day: In August 1485, at the Battle of Bosworth Field, English King Richard III was killed. He was the last English king to die in battle. This (1483-85) English Penny of Richard III hails from that era.

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 Posted 08/22/2020  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And his skeleton was discovered by accident nearly 550 years later under an old car park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwrIka8x9_w
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Australia
311 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2020  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pity a penny couldn't buy you a horse for old Dick III.

Also, his grave was not found by accident. The carpark was known to be associated with a church and was one of several possible resting places for the departed king. They dug the carpark in order to look for his remains.
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 Posted 08/22/2020  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh well that I didn't know, oh well, still mighty interesting anyway.
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 Posted 08/23/2020  12:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Battle of Bosworth Field 1485 included several of my direct ancestors. Rhys ap Thomas of Wales allied with the Tudors against Richard and Sir William Stanley second son of Sir Thomas Stanley, First Lord Stanley went to Henry's aid and led the force that killed Richard III when his horse was mired in the lowlands.

Interesting to see a coin from the reign of the man my ancestors fought against.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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704 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2020  02:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.Interesting to see a coin from the reign of the man my ancestors fought against.


Any possibility that one of your ancestors "dealt the final blow", to put it bluntly?
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 Posted 08/23/2020  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numis-Northerner You said:


Quote:
Any possibility that one of your ancestors "dealt the final blow", to put it bluntly?


According to my family records the answer is no. Sir William Stanley's order to attack Richard III, to save Henry did lead to Richard's death, but that is as close as anyone has said we came to landing the deadly blow.

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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Russian Federation
115 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2020  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slerk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW. You know the history of your ancestors who lived in the 15th century. That's cool. Can you tell us how you found out ? What should I do to find out the history of my ancestors ?
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 Posted 09/13/2020  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Slerk Geneaology is another of my hobbies along with coin collecting. It began with a homework assignment when I was in Junior High. The history teacher asked each member of the class to ask their parents or grandparents about their ancestors. To see who could go back furthest. I asked my grandfather and he was able to go back 12 generations to John Gurney born ca 1610 who came to the Plymouth Colony in 1630. No one else in class could go back further than 1799 and most could not go back to the 1800's.

The class results surprised me. It proved most people just didn't know about where they came from.

That made me wonder about the rest of the family and I began a quest. I found out I descend from 11 Mayflower passengers. But my mother put me in my place by informing me that her ancestors met the boat and should have killed them all before they got off on Plymouth Rock. The English lines were easy since my family descended from royalty through the last Baron of Samlesbury and the family lines are well known back to when Hugh III de Gournay accompanied his cousin William of Normandy to the Battle of Hastings in 1066.

I discovered that I am a descendant of many famous folks, like:
Charlemagne crowned Holy Roman Emperor in 800.
William I King of England
Bohemund III Crusader King of Jerusalem
All of the Surety Barons of the Magna Charta
MacBeth (Mac Bethad mac Findlaích) King of the Scots
Máel Coluim mac Donnchada who killed MacBeth)
Rollo the Dane who invaded France and took Normandy
El Cid of Spain (Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar)

However, I most enjoy uncovering the infamous members of my ancestry. I found out I was a descendant of the first Plymouth colonist hung for murder - John Billington. I also found out that another ancestor and his son were wanted dead or alive by the Plymouth General Court for selling guns to the Indians in 1674. They were half breeds married to Indian women and fought against the whites in the Metacomet War (1676). I found assassins (the fellow who helped kill King Edward II as I recall) and people like Godgifu better known as Lady Godiva wife of Leofric Earl of Mercia. Eventually I was able to discover over 11,000 ancestral names from all over the place.

One relative I am particularly fond of is Vlad II Dracul "The Dragon" of Wallachia and father of Vlad Tepes "The Impaler" better known as Dracula. Dracula was not an ancestor of mine but rather a cousin many times removed.

I love being able to say that I am a distant cousin of the current Queen of England and her brood. But after I got married I discovered my wife was two generations closer to the Queen being a descendant of Edward III while I descend from Edward I "Longshanks".

Some lines are nearly impossible to trace like all of my Indian lines. Many of them died as slaves in Jamaica but names were never recorded. I do know of 4 tribal groups I descend from at least according to the family oral history - 2 in Massachusetts and 2 in Canada.

The LDS maintain a large genealogical database that is computer based but you need to check and recheck what you find there because there are errors. When I was a kid (BC before computers) I went to hundreds of Libraries and even the National archives to hunt for lost relatives. Some gaps in my family chart will never be completed but the search is absolutely worth while. You learn a lot about history no matter how far you get.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 09/14/2020  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would add to swamperbob's fascinating explanation that the task is easier in some countries than in others.

First, for Americans, remember that we are mostly "mutts," descended from people from more than one country. So, my pre-American ancestry is Polish, Irish and German. A cousin who is the family geneaologist in my mother's family (Irish/German)was able to trace the Irish side of the family only to the 1850's, around the time of U.S. arrival of many Irish immigrants escaping the famine, but I went with her to Meppen, Germany, where we were able to trace the German ancestry back to the 1680s. This region of Germany (and I suspect many others) has a genealogical center set up specifically for Americans researching their family history. These centers have all the the local church records (births, marriages, etc.) on microfilm, or digitized
Much less luck on the Polish side of the family, where few records have survived the many wars and occupations. This side can only be traced back to the mid-19th century by documents in the family's possession.
Edited by tdziemia
09/14/2020 10:46 am
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 Posted 09/14/2020  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
tdziemia You are absolutely correct about every country being different. The real problem is to get back to a point where old records exist. It helps in the US if you are descended from the pre-1700 arrivals because the Mayflower Society has documented all the passengers to the 5th generation.

You are also correct that people in the us tend to be mutts. In my own ancestry I have no fewer than 120 different countries and city states.

In England parish records have survived in many places and the peerage records are rather complete.

The mainland of Europe is more difficult because of the world wars. Wars that took place earlier usually did not involve civilian targets and many records survived from the 1700s and earlier.

For me the hardest lines involved "name changes" due to people trying to conceal their identities. That becomes a serious hurdle unless the name change was done legally. Adoptions can be discovered provided they are old enough as can illegitimate births. But every name change will cause problems. In some cases, I have been successful in others I have failed.

My greatest success involves a pair of brothers, surname Bumpass who were indentured servants. They ran away from their master when they were 15 and 16 years old. They did so to enlist in the Continental Army of George Washington as the army marched from Boston after the British evacuation in March, 1776 to go to the aid of Rebel forces in NYC. Both men served until the end of the war under their mother's maiden name Perry. After the War one brother kept Perry and never returned to Massachusetts and the other took the name Bump and relocated to a different town where Bump was a common name. I was extremely fortunate to find the records for the younger brother in the National Archives under (Perry-Bumpas). In his affidavits was the story of his running away with his older brother Asahel Bumpas who was my ancestor. Without that fortunate find I was at a dead end. Local birth records had been transcribed in about 1900 using a typewriter and Asahel was called Asabel because the original handwritten record was misread. So Asahel became a female. I had never found out anything about Asabel and a penciled in entry said "died young". However, with the new information the town allowed me to look at the original handwritten registration book from 1760-1770 and I found the error and had it corrected so that the error will no longer occur and give genealogists fits.

Right now my greatest failure involves a man who called himself Job Lindley. He died on the USS Constitution in Cuba while cruising to stop slave ships about 1830. He was in his mid to late 20's. It appears that this man had falsified his identity to enlist in the Navy. He left behind a widow and one small child under 2 years old who was my great great grandmother Nancy Maria "Lindley" who died in 1909. The information I have comes from Nancy's obituary and may also just be the story she was told when she grew up.

Land records, wills and old deeds are also a great source of data if they still exist.

I spent tens of thousands of hours doing my genealogy. Mostly when I lacked the money to buy coins. Good luck hunting it can be great fun.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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United Kingdom
2397 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doing any genealogy in Ireland can be difficult. Not least because a fire in the Public Record Office in 1922 destroyed many records.

However what a lot of people don't know is that 19th century records such as the census were carried put by a policeman riding his bicycle around the countryside and writing down what people told them - literacy not being completely widespread. Many Irish names are challenging to those non Irish speakers so many names got completely changed in the records just because the person writing it down made the best attempt they could at it. Even Anglican names got mistranslated between the person speaking and the person writing it down. So two brothers living in different jurisdictions could end up with completely different census records for their surnames.

Something to remember if looking at old census records.
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