Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

A New Image Format Is Being Introduced For Coin And Medal Photography

Next Page | Last 15 Replies
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 766Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
7323 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  08:10 am Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
It's called nuTilt and it looks promising. When I first heard of it, I thought how we astrophotographers have a special image format for our images "FITS FILES" (really a container if you will) that holds lots of information about the photos we shoot. Akin to a Photoshop style sidecar but integrated into the image itself. Our astro format holds basics like a digital camera's EXIF data, and a lot more on subject various plate maps IDs, angles, type of camera, temperature of camera, location and data set information pulled from, tangential counts and angles, and rotations, side of pier telescope was on, etc. tons of scientific data can get put into an image if needed. Our FITS format is in it's 4th version now and the manual for compliance is 50 pages long! We need this scientific data to be attached permanently to each image as the equipment that makes the photo will not necessarily be available upon reading the image at another location. The needs for a coin photographer aren't quite as mandated nor necessary, yet we need more than a static image to show of a coin under various slight angles under varying light sources. Hence the need for...

https://blog.davidlawrence.com/introducing-nutilt/

nuTilt was developed to give life to a static photo of a coin, being able to show multiple angles as the light moves, much like rotating a coin in your hand to see the cartwheel effect. The technology was dreamed up by Paul Price, a programmer and collector, over the past decade. It has been brought to the market by David Lawrence Rare Coin. A similar idea was tried by Heritage Auctions a few years ago, that never quite took off, the new image format uses a smart phone app to display the images in a .gif format.

Interesting, they say the format will be opened up to collectors later in the year, but for now it is exclusive to DRLC and various entities they deem to licence it. I look forward to seeing more on this subject.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Forum Dad
Learn More...
United States
20765 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gif will be WAY too big for the internet.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1181 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I look forward to seeing more on this subject.


Me too


Quote:
... yet we need more than a static image to show of a coin under various slight angles under varying light sources.

but the coin images on the DLRC website don't do this. Those images appear to be of either a static coin with the light source(s) rotated around the coin or static lights with the coin rotated so that the resulting image shows the coin's luster band (if there is one) rotating around the coin. It's nice that you can change the speed of the light rotation, but it doesn't look like you can change the angle of the light striking the coin, as you could if you were rotating a coin in hand
Edited by BadDog
08/24/2020 09:32 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2293 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks very promising. It may not be practical for the vast majority of coin images, but looking at some of their uncirculated coins with luster, you can see how some blemishes, bag marks, and toning spots disappear completely at certain light angles, then show up again as the light rotates. You can try to accomplish the same by taking a few still photos with varied lighting, but this does give you a better sense of a what a coin looks like in hand.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many of us have been doing these animations for years. I guess the "new" is making an app so they can be viewed on a cellphone? Perhaps that will finally make this type of imaging popular, though I completely expect it to fizzle like the several previous attempts. Hope not though, as these animations do make it nicer to view the coin, and if the app actually works like they say to rotate "live" according to how you hold the phone, that would be super cool.

@RonSanderson over on Coin Talk uses one of my systems to produce some really nice luster animations. He's been doing this for years. I like his because he doesn't spin the coin round and round, instead going back and forth. Much less dizzying. Here's an example:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/19...post-4234994
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Forum Dad
Learn More...
United States
20765 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is indeed terrific, but it's a whopping 8.5MB That's enough to choke a lot of mobile devices. It's got 17 frames over a half MB each. Chokes mine in my town where service isn't the best. 50% of the traffic here is mobile.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3604 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whatever DLRC is using on their site for the coin animations I don't like it. I think resources could be better used with higher quality photos.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, let's all try to grade a moving target too darn big for Forum hosting. It's a great answer, but the question is worthless. DLRC is gonna wish they hadn't publicized this.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2020  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FITS format, question does your fit format program images have to be worked on at 16 G.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7323 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  03:03 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
ROCKY: FITS format, question does your fit format program images have to be worked on at 16 G.


I don't know what a 16 G is. 16MB or 16 bit or a reference to the next thing after 5G wireless maybe?

FITS file is fairly complex but well established and all the particulars are available to see here (for those interested):

https://fits.gsfc.nasa.gov/fits_documentation.html

I assume you are asking about working on files in a 16-bit space. The image pixels in a primary array or an image extension may have one of 5 supported data types:

* 8-bit (unsigned) integer bytes
* 16-bit (signed) integers
* 32-bit (signed) integers
* 32-bit single precision floating point real numbers
* 64-bit double precision floating point real numbers

A FITS file is comprised of segments called Header/Data Units (HDUs), where the first HDU is called the `Primary HDU', or `Primary Array'. The primary data array can contain a 1-999 dimensional array of 1, 2 or 4 byte integers or 4 or 8 byte floating point numbers using IEEE representations. A typical primary array could contain a 1-D spectrum, a 2-D image, or a 3-D data cube.

A FITS file is not suited for video files.

Some FITS files are quite large. I had a CCD camera that output a "32-bit (signed) integers file" where the raw file size on my computer was around 64MB downloaded and when opened in Photoshop or similar around 128MB+ and generally a typical astrophotograph would contain between 10 to 60 files combined. We stack images to reduce noise and increase S/N ratios, and correct issues like flat field, vignetting and chip defects with Flat Frames, Dark Frames and Bias Frames (many files made and combined into a Master of each generally) even more files when working on large mosaic areas of sky. It was not unusual to fill up close to a terabyte drive in an evening. Making our remote observatory too expensive to transfer data over our only option at the time; a satellite internet connection. Now we have regular internet service via fiber in the area and no longer need to travel to swap out hard drives, every few nights. That got old in a hurry. Satellite was fine for controlling the telescope mount and accessories, and uploading nightly target plans to shoot, just not for transfer of multiple large images. If you're interested in seeing it https://www.itelescope.net/new-blog...elescope-t33 We just removed this scope for a change, there will be another slightly smaller telescope up on that pier for the foreseeable future. This scope was moved from one of our remote test observatories in Texas to Australia where it's been servicing needs of astronomers over the past several years. The issues I described were all here in Texas. The iTelescope site Siding Springs in Australia is quite a robust and proven remote site with excellent facilities and internet. At the moment the status of this telescope is up in the air, we may sell it or ship it back to the USA, it's undecided for now. I digress enough astro talk back to coins...


Quote:
Bobby131313 That is indeed terrific, but it's a whopping 8.5MB That's enough to choke a lot of mobile devices. It's got 17 frames over a half MB each. Chokes mine in my town where service isn't the best. 50% of the traffic here is mobile.


So as to nuTilt files being large? I had no idea they were 8MB+ as I could not get anything beyond the small thumbnails to load properly, I assume it's some issue with my browser extensions or blocking software I use, but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. That would explain it then.

So far I was not impressed with the quality I was seeing either. Time will tell, I do think it's an interesting avenue to go down and a specialized file format that could become a standard is also interesting. I don't really want to see a dealer controlling the format.


Quote:
rmpsrpms: Many of us have been doing these animations for years. I guess the "new" is making an app so they can be viewed on a cellphone? Perhaps that will finally make this type of imaging popular, though I completely expect it to fizzle like the several previous attempts. Hope not though, as these animations do make it nicer to view the coin, and if the app actually works like they say to rotate "live" according to how you hold the phone, that would be super cool.


I really like your friends images better, and I agree completely with all you typed Ray! I bet they must be using some sort of fixed light source and a turntable with the nuTilt system to capture the photos, which would mean a proprietary setup of some sort would be required to be purchased? I'm just guessing, but it seems logical, and the only way to keep everything consistent.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
08/25/2020 03:05 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westcoin thank you so much for your answer. yes I have just started to work in that program. its very deep lots of information lots of tools. westcoin again thank you.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westcoin here is and image taken in that program. this is a 1962 Canadian dime frosted. see the lacquer on the surface of this coin. this program is very exposing. nominally I can bouncing light on to the surface of the coin. that usually makes this invisible. not in this program it does not work. I am shooting through a sheet of glass. this program is incredible. it will take me a while to figure this out but I will. westcoin thank you good luck
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westcoin thank you, your photos are incredible. thank you again for sharing totally excellent
Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was able to get a couple to load, but the functionality was just basic animated gif stuff. You could slow it down or speed it up but otherwise it was pretty lackluster.

They are also a bit dizzying. It appears they are using Autofocus, and their lens "pumps", ie changes magnification a bit when it refocuses. While the animated gif is like riding on the Teacup, their images are like riding on the Tilt-a-Whirl. That 3rd dimension is really a problem. I already fed this back to them so hopefully they can improve. I also don't like the continuous rotation. @RonSanderson's back/forth animations are much more natural and less dizzying.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Over on CU a new user @nuTilt just posted an image of a cellphone viewing the new app. It's interesting, though not ultra-exciting IMO.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1920 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2020  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westcoin here is another image for you. this is a 2019 Canadian 5 cent coin. The nine the punch was damaged. if you look at the bottom tail of the nine. this one has a V in the trail. the lacquer is in the bottom of the groove. I wanted you see what I can do now, here is the image
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 766Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.79 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05