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You Vs PCGS: 1916 Large Cent

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 628Next Topic  
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Canada
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 Posted 10/10/2020  01:51 am Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Same old rules, don't cheat and if you do keep it to yourself I am excited to see what this knowledgeable community has to say...and I'm hopeful that I get some opinions in from you copper geniuses such as SPP and Bosox..

This piece has intense cartwheel luster in hand and pretty much zero contact..any imperfections you see on these trueviews is truly miniscule and unnoticeable in hand..


feel free to call me Will. I'm a 20 year old collector from the GTA area of Ontario.

my PMs are always open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk!
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United States
8099 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2020  03:19 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A stunner for sure. I'm quite inexperienced with mint state non US and I have no issue admitting that. That being said I see virtually no marks at all, the strike is good and luster string. MS67RD
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Canada
9461 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2020  08:27 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Something doesn't look right - the rim is too bright and it looks like someone may have tried to remove the toning from a fingerprint on the lower part of the reverse... (I won't say how that is done, because ICCS would grade that in a heartbeat, and I don't like folks messing with large cents, but I will say that George V large cents can be "enhanced" the easiest of large cents). Also, the cheekbone and ribbon (obverse) and 2nd A of CANADA, as well as the rim say AU, but the lustre says MS...

If it got by the sharp eyes of PCGS, easily MS-65 Red
If it didn't, then "Genuine"

I am on the fence here... but optimistically I would say MS-65+ Red

If I am wrong, and it was my coin, and it came back "Genuine", I would probably crack it out, wait a year and resend it in an ICCS flip asking for a cross-grade service. I have fought hard a few times to get a "Genuine" coin into a graded holder.

It is still a very nice coin, and would easily get into a 65 Red holder at ICCS, but I have learned some harsh lessons with my NFLD large cents and George V small cents that once were in ICCS MS-64+ Red flips. Bosox has even more experience, especially with this series - I'd love to hear his opinion on this one...
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Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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53738 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2020  09:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say MS-65RD. Great eye appeal.
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 Posted 10/10/2020  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with spp. This could go either way at PCGS. Grades red, probably 65, all day at ICCS.

The reverse has that blotchy look, like what is left over after a not entirely successful cleaning.
Edited by bosox
10/10/2020 1:25 pm
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 Posted 10/10/2020  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
comparing it with one of mine,a 65) I say it is a max 64, most likely a 63
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Canada
382 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2020  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Talonbat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've learned my lesson on a couple of these cross grades to PCGS. I will agree with both SPP and bosox. It was easy to get back in in ICCS holder although I never tried resending to PCGS. How often is that successful SPP? Every time I ever had a thought about a coin like this it came back genuine so to me I've never seen PCGS let it slip.
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 Posted 10/13/2020  12:41 am  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You guys are good...I'm not so sure the surfaces are played with..the coin is really nice in hand..I think I'm gonna crack it and try again. Perhaps the deeper reds on lots of the other coins swayed their opinion of this one?


feel free to call me Will. I'm a 20 year old collector from the GTA area of Ontario.

my PMs are always open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk!
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2315 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2020  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS is clueless on that one.

What a dangerous game cross grading high grade ICCS coins to PCGS or NGC.

All for the pursuit of the Registry set.

One last point - value wise, I maintain the coin has more value in an Old ICCS ms65 holder than a new PCGS ms66 holder. (not a typo as I mean PCGS ms66).
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/13/2020 10:20 am
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 Posted 10/13/2020  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think things are getting to the point where coins in the old embossed holders fall into two distinct categories:

1. Those that are in old time collections and have not moved in the last 20-30 years. These are generally under-graded because ICCS was quite tough back then. They are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on and more old collections get sold.

2. Problem coins with some issue that keeps them from crossing at PCGS.

In other words, of the coins that have traded, I think a large percentage of the under-graded, nice, embossed ICCS holder coins have already been crossed at PCGS. All JMHO.
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382 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2020  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Talonbat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely agree with bosox here, basically if you have an old holder embossed 2 letter you have either an undergraded coin from an old collection or you have a light problem coin, nothing major but definitely wouldn't pass PCGS. Or I guess there is a 3rd option that it is both undergraded and lightly played with or a light problem.

To doubleeagle59 I would love to agree with your thinking that an old ICCS holder holds more value then a new PCGS ms66 holder but as far as coppers go, registry set people pay up and pay up big time. I've never had a problem selling anything close to the top of the PCGS registry yet have had old ICCS holder coins struggle to sell at a fraction of a cost. You can never underestimate the registry set people nor the shear appeal of PCGS and NGC to the US market!
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