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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,261 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
Same old rules, don't cheat and if you do keep it to yourself  I am excited to see what this knowledgeable community has to say...and I'm hopeful that I get some opinions in from you copper geniuses such as SPP and Bosox.. This piece has intense cartwheel luster in hand and pretty much zero contact..any imperfections you see on these trueviews is truly miniscule and unnoticeable in hand..  Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
A stunner for sure. I'm quite inexperienced with mint state non US and I have no issue admitting that. That being said I see virtually no marks at all, the strike is good and luster string. MS67RD
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Moderator
 Canada
10456 Posts |
Something doesn't look right - the rim is too bright and it looks like someone may have tried to remove the toning from a fingerprint on the lower part of the reverse... (I won't say how that is done, because ICCS would grade that in a heartbeat, and I don't like folks messing with large cents, but I will say that George V large cents can be "enhanced" the easiest of large cents). Also, the cheekbone and ribbon (obverse) and 2nd A of CANADA, as well as the rim say AU, but the lustre says MS...
If it got by the sharp eyes of PCGS, easily MS-65 Red
If it didn't, then "Genuine"
I am on the fence here... but optimistically I would say MS-65+ Red
If I am wrong, and it was my coin, and it came back "Genuine", I would probably crack it out, wait a year and resend it in an ICCS flip asking for a cross-grade service. I have fought hard a few times to get a "Genuine" coin into a graded holder.
It is still a very nice coin, and would easily get into a 65 Red holder at ICCS, but I have learned some harsh lessons with my NFLD large cents and George V small cents that once were in ICCS MS-64+ Red flips. Bosox has even more experience, especially with this series - I'd love to hear his opinion on this one...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I'll say MS-65RD. Great eye appeal.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
I agree with spp. This could go either way at PCGS. Grades red, probably 65, all day at ICCS.
The reverse has that blotchy look, like what is left over after a not entirely successful cleaning.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
10/10/2020 1:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
comparing it with one of mine,a 65) I say it is a max 64, most likely a 63
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Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts |
I've learned my lesson on a couple of these cross grades to PCGS. I will agree with both SPP and bosox. It was easy to get back in in ICCS holder although I never tried resending to PCGS. How often is that successful SPP? Every time I ever had a thought about a coin like this it came back genuine so to me I've never seen PCGS let it slip.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
4911 Posts |
You guys are good...I'm not so sure the surfaces are played with..the coin is really nice in hand..I think I'm gonna crack it and try again. Perhaps the deeper reds on lots of the other coins swayed their opinion of this one?  Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
PCGS is clueless on that one.
What a dangerous game cross grading high grade ICCS coins to PCGS or NGC.
All for the pursuit of the Registry set.
One last point - value wise, I maintain the coin has more value in an Old ICCS ms65 holder than a new PCGS ms66 holder. (not a typo as I mean PCGS ms66).
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/13/2020 10:20 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
I think things are getting to the point where coins in the old embossed holders fall into two distinct categories:
1. Those that are in old time collections and have not moved in the last 20-30 years. These are generally under-graded because ICCS was quite tough back then. They are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on and more old collections get sold.
2. Problem coins with some issue that keeps them from crossing at PCGS.
In other words, of the coins that have traded, I think a large percentage of the under-graded, nice, embossed ICCS holder coins have already been crossed at PCGS. All JMHO.
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Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts |
Definitely agree with bosox here, basically if you have an old holder embossed 2 letter you have either an undergraded coin from an old collection or you have a light problem coin, nothing major but definitely wouldn't pass PCGS. Or I guess there is a 3rd option that it is both undergraded and lightly played with or a light problem.
To doubleeagle59 I would love to agree with your thinking that an old ICCS holder holds more value then a new PCGS ms66 holder but as far as coppers go, registry set people pay up and pay up big time. I've never had a problem selling anything close to the top of the PCGS registry yet have had old ICCS holder coins struggle to sell at a fraction of a cost. You can never underestimate the registry set people nor the shear appeal of PCGS and NGC to the US market!
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,261 |
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Posted 10/10/2020 08:27 am
