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1940 & 1941 Lincoln Wheat Cent Wood Grain, Lam Error Also?

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 Posted 12/02/2020  7:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good people, what causes wood graining on Lincoln Wheat cent, is this a lamination error or alloy mix issue and are the two mutually exclusive. Attached is an example of two LWC Woodie Cents.

1941 LWC Wood Grain but no Lamination Error?




1942 LWC Wood Grain and Lamination Error?


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 Posted 12/02/2020  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In a true "woodie" the issue is an improper alloy mix, and the "woodgrain" would flow in the exact same direction on both sides.
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 Posted 12/02/2020  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numiscrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Merclover,

I may be thinking the same thing you are. The 1942 has the same direction/angle to the grain when I mentally flip it. I don't see the same on the 1940, but maybe it is the photo.

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 Posted 12/02/2020  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Woodgraining is caused by an improper alloy mix. Some collectors like them, others don't. In circulated condition, like these, there is typically very little premium.
Edited by Coinfrog
12/02/2020 9:07 pm
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 Posted 12/02/2020  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One is, one isn't. Which makes me question both.
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 Posted 12/02/2020  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numiscrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinfrog,

I do have that question.

My thinking is that different metallic domains will be stretched in the same direction when the metal is worked in preparing stock for planchets. The directions have to match front to back that way.

I can understand how opposing directions would be perceived if that is true. For an obverse/reverse pair of photos for something with medal alignment, the angle would appear the same. For coin alignment, the angles would appear to be mirror images (different angles) because of the different axis of rotation.

If my understanding of how a woody originates is incorrect, then I apologize for the incorrect gibberish above.
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 Posted 12/02/2020  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO your 1940 cent looks AU to Ms and I believe a premium can be added to that cent...lovely coin...
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 Posted 12/02/2020  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numiscrat - I can only speak from experience and the obvious fact that this 1941 cent is clearly genuine.
Edited by Coinfrog
12/02/2020 10:46 pm
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 Posted 12/02/2020  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numiscrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinfrog,

I still am wondering if my understanding as stated above is correct, but after working my way through those pics again, I realize I was incorrect about the 1940. I thought the grain was running the other direction. I believe the grain direction does match.

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 Posted 12/02/2020  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's evident my description produced the unintended inference that one of the two coins was not a woody, when the goal was to assume both were woodies but which was also with a lamination error. My question was to Evaluate if any of these coins has a lamination error. The answer appears to be no. None of the photos are doctored but are raw coins. For noobs like me it is important to know the why in addition to the what, otherwise you could be hosed in a trade, buy or sell. or make an unfavorable impression, which I hope was not my case here. Thanks for all the engagement, it was a blast to read!
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 Posted 12/02/2020  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, let's visit this in a bit more detail... it's somewhat difficult with a single coin, but much more confusing when dealing with two coins (part of the reason we ask for one coin per thread).

As discussed above, with an improper alloy mix, the "grain" has to match both sides. Think of a plank of wood, the wood grain flows in the same direction throughout the wood. Same thing with a true "woodie" cent. Also as mentioned, the orientation of U.S. coins is such that when flipped over, the reverse appears "up-side-down" in relation to the obverse. As an example, an ooze from 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock on one side would be expected to travel 1-7 o'clock when flipped to the other side.

Following this orientation, the "grain" of the first coin above (the 1940) is in direct opposition to what it should be, while the grain in second coin (the 1941) moves as expected, that is, the flow of the grain matches correctly. I'll go out on a limb here and say it is nearly impossible for grain flow between the obverse and reverse to act in a 90 degree stream in relationship to each other, yet it is in the first (1940) coin.

So, that is why I said above that one is a woodie, and one is not. And if one is true and one untrue, it makes you wonder how this could have happened? Is one or even both simply surface marks and not a real improper alloy mix?


ša va bien aller

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 Posted 12/03/2020  12:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1940 has the "grain" running in the proper direction on both sides. If you look at the reverse pic of the 1940 coin and focus to the viewers left wheat you will see the grain is running correctly between the rim and the wheat. The 90 degree ripples that are a telltale of a lam are just showing darker on this example.
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 Posted 12/03/2020  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a lot to this about, love this Forum!
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 Posted 12/03/2020  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The 1940 has the "grain" running in the proper direction on both sides.

OK, I've officially been looking at too many cents. I'm sorry, I had my American cents orientation backwards. I spend most of my "hands on" time searching through Canadian Cents, where the "up-side-down" flip over applies. It's American Cents that remain correct orientation. Sorry for the confusion.

So that means it's the 1940 cent that is the true woodie pictured above, while the second coin, the 1941 is not.


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 Posted 12/03/2020  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add That coin dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neat finds, not sure about the '40, but the '41 is definitely one!
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 Posted 12/03/2020  04:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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