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1883 Switzerland Shooting Thaler But With 1885 Obverse Design?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 484Next Topic  
New Member

United States
8 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  4:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Deezdrama to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So ive been collecting shooting thalers for about 2 years. Ive been keeping an eye on ebay for about that same amount of time - looking for an 1885 Bern shooting thaler.

About a week ago I see a listing for an 1883 but it has the obverse design of an 1885 in the pic. I thought maybe he listed it wrong so win the bid for $51

I get it today and at first am happy and think I got an error strike as I can find no info at all of an 1883 with the 1885 design on the front.

But then I see them ##### Chinese sell a fake 1885 on "cant post name here but its the China junk site" that looks fake worn and now figuring I got a fake? The fake one on there had the right date but lacked the 5 franc mark.
This one also lacks a 5 franc mark so either its definatelly fake or a super rare error medal lol?




More pics out of capsule

https://ibb.co/k3xT93N]
https://ibb.co/BgfVNqY]
https://ibb.co/TvxW3XJ]

https://ibb.co/k3xT93N
https://ibb.co/BgfVNqY
https://ibb.co/TvxW3XJ

Weight 25.8g on cheap digital scale. Could not measure since the cold killed my calipers battery

It really blows my mind if its fake. I had no idea China was faking these. I can easily spot a fake ase or maple but this looks legit. Anyone have any info on this?

*** Edited by Staff - added images to post ***
Edited by Deezdrama
01/09/2021 6:09 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3360 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Chinese are known to fake anything. I own a counterfeit 1 yuan coin which is worth just 12 US cents - that tells you anything above that is worthwhile counterfeiting.

It's a sign of the times unfortunately. You need to know what you are getting otherwise get prepared to be ripped off.

I'm not well versed in Swiss coinage - can you please take a couple of photos of the edge too?
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries

My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm Regularly updated at least once a month.
New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Deezdrama to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I added 3 pics outside of capsule to original post but dont know how to embed them, you will have to click on them.

I didnt embed them right but I think they are showing up now

Sadly to me it looks like a new coin just antiqued, the background has a luster to it with what seems a fake aging antique toning ontop and not much wear to the field.
The rim is sharp feeling where I think the reeded edge should be more smooth and worn, I even scraped the rim a bit with a knife.... if its plated it is thick as I didnt see any brass under it. It weighs 25.8 on my cheap scale. Should be right at 25g I believe. Its missing the "5 franc" denomination as well.

So- probably fake then?

Thanks for replying!
Edited by Deezdrama
01/09/2021 6:15 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
18715 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very 'pasty' looking indicative of
pressure cast fake.
Moderator
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United States
20020 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@deez, first welcome to CCF. Second, you should try to return this dud to the seller.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Deezdrama to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks,

I am, I can darn near pick it up with a 1" neo mangnet
New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Deezdrama to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He replied....

"I bought this over a decade ago and from what your telling me it looks like I got duped, send it back and I will give you a refund"

His listing says no refunds so I hope he just dont take my money and my fake coin lol.

Do I have an ebay guarantee protection?
It was described as a 1883 Swizterland shooting thaler. Under composition it says silver.
This clearly isn't silver since I can almost pick it up in the capsule with a magnet. So- right there I didnt get what I paid for. Should I send it back or ask ebay to step in?

Also he has 1899 french Piastre for sale that looks shady. He got alot of coins listed probably alot of fakes?
I dont know how he has a 100% feedback
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3360 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it's overweight and magnetic, I think you have answered your question.

I'm definitely concerned about the quality of such fakes. The quality has definitely improved and that includes the art of artificial aging.

Regardless of how the seller is going to play dumb, he / she is obliged to take it back if you can demonstrate that it's not genuine. Ebay and paypal thankfully supports buyers in this aspect. Otherwise it's a buyers aware market.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries

My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm Regularly updated at least once a month.
New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Deezdrama to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I took a pic of my magnet almost picking it up and although he listed it without accepting returns, and I couldnt initiate a refund from the ebay app on my phone.... I was able to initiate a refund from the computer and chose "not authentic" and stated it was described as an 1883 Switzerland Shooting Silver Thaler- which it was not and was not composed of real silver so that should cover my a##, Ill send it back with tracking.

I havnt had to return things too much luckily but this is a good wake up call, and a scary one..... Makes me want to get the magnet slide out and spend a week chucking coins and rounds down her
If this "coin" had the correct reverse and date, and would of had 5 franc denomination, I would of never questioned it.

Better check over the rest of my Thalers. Maybe ill send em in for grading the ones that arent slabbed.

Whats really scary..... While I was researching fake Thalers I found a site in Chinese with slabbed thalers. I dont know if they was for sale or fake but sure seemed fishy.

I better run some slabbed numbers on NGC site while I'm at it
Edited by Deezdrama
01/09/2021 8:05 pm
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United States
20020 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes buyer beware--the magnet test is always a good start. Also, consider being way more choosy with your sellers. I might start by ditching eBay for these and going to the sellers at ma-shops. It still isn't 100%, but it should be better.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Deezdrama to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea... I havnt been to the lcs since the 'rona but might have to drop in and see if he has any.

I know I should be stacking more generic bullion but the older I get the more I want historical numismatic stuff.
Especially with silver being up, I feel like alot of the numismatic stuff has kept the same premium and not really went up which makes it feel like a better deal..... Well not this particular one
Edited by Deezdrama
01/09/2021 9:47 pm
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United States
101953 Posts
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