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Single Squeeze Dies And Multi Hub Dies. Why Knowing This Is Important

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 184Next Topic  
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 Posted 02/23/2021  10:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Probably the best way to tell the differences between the single squeeze dies and the multi hub dies, is the profile of the bust/design. To see if it is high profile (The old fashioned taller bust/design details)

Note the height of the devices on these examples?










Did you note on these examples of higher profile. But what do we need to see on the lower profile dies? Now we will look at some single squeeze dies examples with the lower bust/design details and lower profiles on the devices.

So did you see the profiles on these coins, are not as tall/high as the earlier examples? That is what to look for on the single squeeze dies.















So while they may occur in a time period, they all didn't start at the same time. So seeing them side by side will help us see the differences:



Can you see the differences in height of the busts now? The older way of creating the dies, made the design taller, by the hub creation process, because the dies a is hubbed several times. On the single squeeze process, the design is lower, because the dies are hubbed only once. Thus the lower profile while saving a lot of money, Always the primary goal to them as they are just making coinage. But to collectors, they are less desirable, because of the beauty of the coins is lost to the collectors. By not showing what they collectors used to see, they are not as classic looking. Going through my image files, there are a lot less images of coins that are the single squeeze process. I even noticed the coinage of the special designs are different. The special coins, use the three step process with the higher profiles. (So these might have doubled dies like the older style coins?)
One way to see which hubbing process was used, is to check die wear patterns. The single squeeze dies will show the die wear in a different pattern.
The distortion will be on the outside devices in the direction of the nearest rims.





On this one, while it looks like a doubled die, the devices are all affected towards the nearest rim. (In a huge way)
On this doubled die, the DDD is more subtle. Probably less of these coins are struck, so we don't see the extreme die wear patterns.

Note the gold images are showing distortion, towards the closest rims.
The difference? The devices will be normal, but the fields will be affected as the die starts to age. We start to see ridge ring, on the single squeeze dies:





The die wear does not change the devices as much, but the fields are showing the distortion.

On the higher profile process, the die wear affects the outer edges of the devices, towards the rim direction. The devices will be first affected, then walk towards the rim direction.

Note the heavy die flow on the fields, and the devices moving towards the rim.
Die wear patterns will be noticed on different die states:

Note on the examples the outer edge is affected first, then the distortion is seen on the next die state. Then the complete edge of the devices is seen in the later die states.
But on the single squeeze dies the Die Deterioration Doubling is real extreme on the later die state coins:










So while the dies wear quicker on the single squeeze dies, because of the lack of strength of the hub process. (Compared with the multi squeeze process) The dies get worse looking on the single squeeze dies quicker. But what does this all mean? They are clues. When we see die wear on the multi hubbed dies, they appear different, than on the single squeeze dies. That is why I refer to the DDD examples, more often on the single squeeze dies, and refer to die wear more on the multi hub dies. True, all are die wear, but the die wear patterns are different.
But these clues also tell use where to look for doubled dies as well. On the multi hub dies, they were listed in different classes of doubled dies. ((1-8) But on the single squeeze they are most often considered as class 9 doubled dies. Why the difference? Because the single squeezed dies are hubbed only once. The extra hubbing on the multi hubbed dies created different directions of hub doubling. So the single squeeze doubled dies are more in the center of the designs. On the multi hubbed dies, they have the hub doubling more away from the centers of the designs. So knowing what type of hubbing process will change the way you look for hub doubling. The single squeeze direction is just opposite the multi hub doubled dies. So know in advance will save a lot of time in searching through coins.

CoopHome : Difference between single and multi hub dies
Why searching for doubled dies are different on these dies?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
02/23/2021 11:03 am
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 Posted 02/23/2021  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PlumCrazy814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Coop! your extensive posting is greatly appreciated.
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 Posted 02/23/2021  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I didn't have to make any new images. All from my image storage. (11.5K images)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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United States
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 Posted 02/23/2021  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NickG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop!

Glad I read through this before posting asking for help! I was looking through a roll of penny's and found this one.

Just to make sure this is an example of DDD.





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 Posted 02/23/2021  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add td5173 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop great information super presentation. Thank you
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48773 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2021  10:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I try to teach by using our eyes. Cause when you can see it, you then know it. Sometimes words can get away, but seeing develops a memory. This memory kicks in, when we are searching. Glad to be Abbie to assist.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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