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Damaged Coins, Are Not Error Coins:

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 Posted 03/02/2021  4:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Damaged coins, are not error coins:
Often we have new ones come on the forum and they are confused about coin terms. We use it everyday, but the one most abused is the term "Error coins". To the new ones, the term "errors apply to everything. Die varieties of coins are not errors. Here is a definition of what I feel each of the three categories are.

1. Die varieties: Die varieties is a term used to specify one specific die. In the 18th century, the die were so unique that they listed each die created with a specific term. They have Overton for each specific die. Why? Because each die was created individually without a master hub, master die, working hub and working die progression that were are used to today. Specific areas were had punched into the area. the date numbers were a one at a digit punch into the new die created. While these are not my expertise, there are many that do collect these. Here is more information on a link:
Why did I bring that up? The concept was each die was unique. Some years they used the same reverse dies on different years as the dies didn't wear out as fast then because a lot less coins were struck. There were Over dates for a previous years die that was punched with a number over a previous years number: These were called Over Dates.

Digits over digits were also found on certain dies, and not found on other dies:

Some where miss punched into the Denticals area. Called MPDs (Mis-Punched-Dates)

Well I've got to get back to the subject I want to cover. Just as these dies were unique because of the way they were created, today we have individual dies, but they are not all created differently The variety dies we see today are minor in comparison with what they had then. But during the chain of creating dies, :

As you see the chain of command, well the die varieties are more towards the bottom, the Working die that is listed as a separate die. Sure there are cases of some of the other hubs/die could affected a lot of dies and hubs, but the single working dies are what we are mentioning today. These die varieties are created that way by the hub process being in error, or a die is worn, damage, warped, that alters the one die. The variety die, creates a doubled die from coin number one, until the last coin is struck with that die. That is why they call it a variety. All the other dies are normal dies, but because of the hub issue, the doubled dies have doubling because of the hub issue. All coins struck with that die will have the same spread of the devices. The areas that are not normal are on the die, from creation of the die. Thus the term die variety. (Which were are familiar with, but the new ones won't be.

2. Error coins:
Error coins to be is a more of a one coin event. Wrong Planchet, alignment issues during the striking process, creating Partial collars, off centers, Low pressure strikes, tapered planchets, broad strikes, Flip over and doubled struck collars. The list goes on and on, for these. Check Mike Diamond web pages. You will get lost and so amazed at the same time.

3. Die events:
Die events are a term I came up with a while back. Most of the event happen as the die ages, getting polished, breaking down, These are common events like die cracks, die chips, die breaks, retained die breaks, retained rim cuds, and lastly cuds. (More of a die ending event.) While these catch the interest of new collectors, they are quite common, except for die cuds. When a new collector starts collecting, he collects all of these. But as the years go by, you realize these are quite common. I read a new thought the other day. As the die ages, when it gets to the VLDS die state (the state where stuff are really coin wrong for the dies and was not like it was when the die was new, sounds familiar) But 54% of the coins are struck by the VLDS dies:

So when you see the earlier die state coins, those are the ones to hang onto for future collectors. When they grading companies finally realize that the die state make a bigger interest for seasoned collectors. And the 54% coins are the ones to avoid. So learn now to spot these gems before the grading companies realize this.

But there is an area that a lot of new ones call errors and that is coin damage. Thus when we answer questions the coins that look like they lost the war, are the ones the new ones feel are errors. So of the three areas, I've covered, they have missed that there is a big difference. So our job is to help them realize how to know what to look for.

So here are a few images I put together of damaged coins that have been posted on the forum:

So when the term "Errors" come up, make sure they are familiar with, Damaged coins are not mint errors.

Seems like this message is fueled on by the internet sites and the big money they lure the new ones in on. Not the money that they are claiming.

What to recommend?
Before searching, have the new ones look at the sites to see what is there to look for and alert them that some events may be old hat, and looking at the new areas for the single squeeze die locations are important. So steering them towards the sites, will help them see what to look for, and what to stop looking for that has changed with the single squeeze process. I'll probably be adding more information as we go along. (Something I forgot to add.) Enjoy.

CoopHome: Damaged Coins, Are Not Error Coins:
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:
Edited by coop
03/02/2021 4:59 pm
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 Posted 03/02/2021  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jasper62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Damaged coins, are not error coins:

Thank you coop for posting those 6 little words and all those examples. Every time I get on eBay I want to say that a few hundred times
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 Posted 03/02/2021  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This should be sticky post, so anyone can redirect to this post whenever new posts regarding a PMD coin is posted.

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 Posted 03/03/2021  04:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lcutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wish there was a way that new members had to read this before they could post!
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 Posted 03/03/2021  05:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said Coop as usual.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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 Posted 03/03/2021  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PPorro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope you don't mind me adding this. Parking Lot Coins

Edited by PPorro
03/03/2021 3:36 pm
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 Posted 03/03/2021  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop, great as always.
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