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Cracked Die/Chip Vs Delamination Education

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 241Next Topic  
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 Posted 03/08/2021  11:57 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ericwats to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi

I have been staring at a lot of coins under a microscope and a few questions come to mind about what I am looking at.

1 - is it correct to say that delamination will always produce a mark going into the surface of the coin?

2 - is it correct to say that a cracked Die/Chip will always produce a raised surface on the coin?

3 - is it correct to say that a CUD is simply a die chip off the side of the die and a PreCUD is a die crack that goes to the edge and will eventually create a CUD?

Simply trying to straighten this all out in my mind.

Thanks Eric
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 Posted 03/08/2021  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scuba1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ericwats!
There are more knowledgeable experts here than I but here's my 2 cents worth in answering your questions.
1-a lamination area on a coin will usually look like a type of "peeling" off of metal on the surface and can be found anywhere on the coin. Some are retained and other lamination errors will fall off and leave some type of an incuse area on the coin which can sometimes imitate PMD.
2- To my knowledge, yes, a die chip/crack or gouge will normally (if not always) produce a raised area on the coin. Not to be mistaken for blistered plating.
3-Cuds..... Cuds...... Cuds..... admittedly not my strong point, but your description seems to be accurate by my understanding. A piece of the die metal breaks off of the edge of the die and causes a raised piece of metal on the rim of the coin. Once again, some cuds are retained (aka retained cud) and I believe some may fall off depending on the location and severity of the broken die edge.
Phew...... I hope I'm correct in these evaluations....
Edited by Scuba1
03/08/2021 12:21 pm
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 Posted 03/08/2021  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 03/08/2021  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scuba1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Or... I could have just posted the link John1 supplied and saved a lot of typing.....
THANKS John1
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 Posted 03/08/2021  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1 - is it correct to say that delamination will always produce a mark going into the surface of the coin?
As mentioned already if that the lamination is usually below the surface of a coin. The exception to the rule is that if the lamination is folded/still attached, it can show above the normal surfaces of the coin.






2 - is it correct to say that a cracked Die/Chip will always produce a raised surface on the coin?
Yes. Why? Because the chip that breaks off of the die, will leave a void on the die. The void is fill with the metal for the next/continuing strikes, leaving a raised area on the fields/devices.

3 - is it correct to say that a CUD is simply a die chip off the side of the die and a PreCUD is a die crack that goes to the edge and will eventually create a CUD?
A die cud is a break away from the outside edge of the die.

The cud leaves a huge void on the die. So on the opposite side of the coin, that area will be weak because of the missing die material.


Die chips do not leave a weakness on the opposite side of the coin. Die chips are very common. A die cud is an end of life experience of a die. Chips can have many die chips and not be retired. A pre-cud/retained cud is an die event that hasn't happened yet to make it a die cud.


The die crack that is rim to rim on that area can last quite a while. But then the die cracks get deeper, the edge of the die may break off, but the collar holds the retained cud in place and many of these can be struck, until the retained die breaks away.
https://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49...rse.jpgp/img]
Then the die is retired. You don't see many of the reverse dies having a die cud.

Usually you see this on the obverse die. (probably because of the lifting of the die, the retained die break will fall out on the obverse. The reverse there is no lift of the die, so they retain the cud for a longer time)




CoopHome : Laminations, die chips and cuds. How do the dies affect the coins struck with them?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 03/08/2021  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ericwats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop for the through explanation, I am pretty sure I have clear in my head now.

John1, not sure if I should thank you. The URL is going to derail me for a long time. Thanks for the link! Bookmarked it.

Eric
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 Posted 03/08/2021  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a very good link but it does have a lot of info and not always user friendly, but worth the effort.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 03/08/2021  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lembafc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I seriously love Coop's replies. Numismatic golllld
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 Posted 03/08/2021  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That double cud is pretty neat. I bet it has a decent price tag, too.
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 Posted 03/08/2021  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You would have to ask 'Two Hawks' to get the answer to that question.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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