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Real Or Fake? 1877 CC Trade Silver Dollar

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New Member

Australia
2 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  12:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Platypus1966 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Poll Question
Good Day,

I write to get an opinion of this 1877 CC Trade dollar. Is this coin authentic or forgery? It measures and weighs OK and scored a 1/3 (pass) on my ping testing app. Thank You.




Poll Choices
  Real Coin
  Fake Coin
  Cannot Be Determined
  I don't know (I want to see the poll results)

Edited by Platypus1966
03/31/2021 12:18 am
Valued Member
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  01:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just recently discovered a counterfeit Trade dollar that had been in my collection for over 30 years. Unlike yours, mine had small pimples all over the surfaces, an indication of a spark erosion counterfeit. From what I can see, your coin doesn't have a pimpled surface. Secondly, my counterfeit was under weight by 0.5 grams but you say yours measures and weighs correctly. Thirdly, the CC mint mark appears to be correct. My only concern would be if that year used a type 1 obverse paired with a type 1 reverse which is what your coin appears to be. I am not well versed enough to know that. Finally, a specific gravity test should make you feel more assured if the reading comes back 10.33 or there abouts.
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United States
2478 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% absolute fake. Everything about the devices are way off. Date is incorrect. Rim and dentils are not correct. I'm not sure what they were trying to do with Liberty's eye, but doesn't look like they finished! Details in hair and drapery are not even close.

By no means trying to bash you on this one, but now knowing it's a fake, take a look at a genuine 77 CC and compare all the details.
Valued Member
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  01:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just took a second look and I noticed something that doesn't look right. The hand with the olive branch has three fingers which a type 1 obverse is supposed to have however, The banner with "Liberty" has ends which point down instead of to the left. The downward pointing banner I believe is associated with a type 2. Can anyone else verify the type 1 versus the type 2 criteria?
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United States
8621 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  01:26 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MisterT, this is a really bad fake. Don't look so hard into it, this is one of them that should take a half glance. Nothing about it is right. The design is wrong, the relief is wrong, the wear is totally wrong, the surfaces are wrong. If it quacks like a duck, and it looks like a duck...
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2478 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
None of this is going to match up because it's a bad Chinese fake, no offense.

BUT

Obv 1 has 3 fingers and the scroll points to the left
Obv 2 has 4 fingers and the scroll points down

Edit: Platypus
Edited by Ty2020b
03/31/2021 01:30 am
Valued Member
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  01:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I mentioned I am not very well versed with Trade dollars and since the only one in my collection is a proven counterfeit, I have nothing to compare it to. I did observe the banner and fingers though so at least I learned something. That is what I like about this forum. So many people willing to educate me. Thank you!
Valued Member
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey folks, you people are so well versed that you are able to spot it with a glance. I didn't catch it until I took a second look at the fingers and the scroll not matching up. Please educate me. I want to be able to distinguish at a glance like all of you. I am so sick of all this fake Chinese crap!
Valued Member
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  04:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grape, I wanted to send you an email but the forum will not allow me to send one since I am a new member. In a previous thread you had mentioned that you worked in a coin shop so I value your expertise. I searched some more information on the Trade dollars on this forum about detecting counterfeits. I found the die pairings that are absolutely counterfeits. When you said you can tell by half a glance that this was fake is it because you knew those pairings? I can see now that the obverse is a type 1 hand but a type 2 scroll which is wrong and I can see the reverse is a type 1 which doesn't belong. What else should I be noticing? It is hard for me to discern details because of wear. Please educate me!
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Australia
18569 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  07:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Free of casting bubbles but poor detail.
Very 'pasty' luster (lack of) indicative of pressure diecast.

A close look at the edge millings should confirm.
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58337 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


to the CCF!
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33709 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  10:43 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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United States
3013 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hey folks, you people are so well versed that you are able to spot it with a glance. I didn't catch it until I took a second look at the fingers and the scroll not matching up. Please educate me. I want to be able to distinguish at a glance like all of you. I am so sick of all this fake Chinese crap!


There is no quick fix in learning how to detect counterfeits and it changes from series to series and with knowledge and practice, your skills at detecting counterfeits can be improved. Below is a basic list of how I would look at a raw Trade dollar from photo to determine if the coin is genuine.

1) What is my first impression of the coin genuine or counterfeit? Most of the time my first impression is correct. There are times that I feel that the coin is counterfeit, but I do not know exactly why.
2) Check the type 1 and type 2 features to match the date of the coin.
3) Check for the coin being a cast counterfeit. Does the coin have cast bumps?
4) Check the denticles. Most Trade dollar counterfeits have an issue with denticles. On the OP example the denticles are not close to being genuine.
5) Check wear on the coin. Does wear on obverse and reverse match grade of genuine examples?
6) Check the stars on obverse for how the stars are formed.
7) Check lettering and date on coin for sharpness and quality.
8) Check the coin details for sharpness and quality. If there is a problem, compare to a genuine example.
9) Check mint marks. There were mini, medium. and large mint marks used on Trade dollars. On the CC the formation and position can be used match genuine examples.
10) The bench that Liberty sits on can be use to detect some deceptive counterfeit Trade dollars.
11) The date position on the Trade dollar is typically NOT a good tool to use to detect counterfeits as the date was put in by hand for new dies and there is no position consistency.
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21313 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please educate me!


It's a type 1 reverse which is impossible on an 1877. See here....

https://www.coincommunity.com/us_do...ar_types.asp
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100991 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's a type 1 reverse which is impossible on an 1877. See here....


My example...

Valued Member
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pardon my ignorance! You folks are fantastic! This still may be difficult for me with very worn condition details but thanks to you all I have some basic starting points. I have been reading as many articles as I can find these days about counterfeits and making notes in my notebook for future reference. I have been collecting coins for 54 years and still what I don't know could fill an encyclopedia! With your assistance, I hope to advance my skills.
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