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Help Identifying Shipwreck For Sea-Salved 1777 Potosi 8 Reales

 
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 Posted 04/20/2021  12:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bayareacoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi there - I'm new to the forums and happy to be here.
I have a 1777 Potosi-mint 8 reales that I am positive is sea-salvaged. I am wondering if anyone has an idea what wreck this could have come from? I know its a longshot. Thank you in advance.

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 Posted 04/20/2021  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know little about sea-salvaged coins, but weren't most of the coins struck in the "new world"?
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 Posted 04/20/2021  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add That Coin Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if there is a way to identify a ship with your coin, as I don't see any identifying markers.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  12:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF

Almost impossible to tell what shipwreck, if it even was, that it came from.
Sometime after 1777.
Do you have any paperwork saying that it is a shipwreck coin? Without it ,
it would be hard to prove.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bayareacoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have any paperwork, but the "corrosion" on the coin appears pretty clearly to be a result of salt water. Other than the light corrosion, coin is in great shape and may even be uncirculated. Considering, I thought maybe someone knew of a wreck with freshly-minted coins coming from or around Potosi in the year 1777. I understand its a longshot.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Identifying a providence of that coin my prove to be very difficult without any paper work tracing it back. You my cave to talk to the folks you got it from, and work backwards from there and finally get a manifest or ships log that identifies it.

Good luck
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 Posted 04/20/2021  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to eliminate one possibility, are you sure it's genuine, where did you obtain it.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It may just be the photos But the 7 s look off to me.
https://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/...38-0436g.jpg
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 Posted 04/20/2021  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More than the the 7 is off, that's why I'm asking where he obtained it.
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 Posted 04/20/2021  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not making any judgement about real or fake based on those photos but the coin appears to me to have ground burial damage as opposed to salt water damage. There have been several large ground finds over the years of Potosi 8 Reales in the 1775-1780 date range. Clear photos of the edges and a weight or specific gravity test would help determine real or fake.
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 Posted 04/22/2021  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bayareacoin I would agree with most of the comments above. The first issue is always:

Is the coin genuine? Specific gravity might be slightly on the high side since copper erodes more easily than silver in particular for shipwreck coins. An XRF test might also be helpful. In this case any gold trace will be very very small compared to Mexico but Arsenic and cadmium are far more likely to appear in measurable amounts. Anything resembling a pure alloy of copper and silver alone could point to a modern forgery. Traces of iridium or heavy earth elements used to improve electrical conductivity should NOT be found in a Bolivian silver coin. I would definitely assess any XRF tests with great caution and someone very familiar with false positives should interpret the raw data.

I have far less familiarity with XRF testing of Bolivian coins that I do with Mexican issues. However, the mine at Potosi in 1777 did very little to remove most trace elements that were not very easily oxidized by heating the metal to a liquid state.

Regarding the shipwreck, I would NEVER accept an attribution to a specific shipwreck without formal recovery data. A guess is easy to make but impossible to prove.
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 Posted 04/22/2021  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just rechecked XRF test results from Potosi, Bolivia silver and there are two trace contaminants that might have survived refining techniques used in the 1770's and may be present in the silver used - Tin and Bismuth. They are contaminants in the same order of magnitude as arsenic and of greater magnitude than the potential for finding significant gold.

I would like to see any XRF test results so that I could compare them.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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