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Zegers/Winograd Project Reborn! Database For 2013B Star Note Serial #s

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New Member
Canada
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 Posted 10/10/2021  03:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PastExpiry to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have stepped in to give the Zegers/Winograd Project a new home and will be working on maintaining and updating it, after the owner was forced to end the project due to family reasons. It will go by the new name Project 2013B

Apologies for this somewhat duplicate post but I figured not too many would of noticed my announcement that was on page 17 of another thread

Going back to Sept 20th, I have been in constant contact with Karol Winograd and received valuable feedback as I slowly built the website, online forms (for submissions, and changes to the list), and what seemed like 50 revisions to get the Welcome page wording just right. I wanted to make the site as clear and easy to use as I could.

Anyone not familiar with 2013B star notes, the duplicated serial number error that occurred, or the history of the project itself can read all about it at:
https://project2013b.blogspot.com/2...welcome.html

NEW FEATURES
Those who were subscribed to the Zegers/Winograd Project monthly emails will find some features that you will hopefully like:
-Database (spreadsheet) is now online and available 24/7
-Updates are made within a day or two, so no more waiting a month for the latest spreadsheet.
-The Database can be downloaded any time you want in a variety of formats.
-Submitting your serial numbers is now done with an online form, with a clear guide of what information on the bill is required, and where on the bill it is located.
-Changes to the serial numbers you have on record can be done through an online form as well. If you sold, lost, or (gulp) spent your star notes you can request their status to be changed.
-The forms will do some rudimentary checks of the data entered, so if you enter too many or too few digits, it should catch it, and save everyone time as far as playing email-tag to make corrections.
-There is a new mailing list you can subscribe to; it even has color and pictures!

Match-making
Just like before, if a serial number match is found in the database, the admin (me) will notify both owners (the Fort Worth note owner, and the Washington DC note owner), and I will act as the go-between at least until both parties agree to talk directly to each other (if they even want that). PLEASE NOTE if you submitted your serial number before October 1, 2021, you will need to re-submit your email address since the addresses that were part of the Zegers/Winograd database WERE NOT SHARED with Project2013B (me).

Past Zegers/Winograd Project members
Some members expressed that they did not want to share their email with the Project 2013B, so it was decided it will be 100% voluntary if past individuals want to do so.
If you don't want your email address shared, then simply do nothing (I don't have it).
If you do want to submit your email address you will have to use the form at the following link specifically for that purpose:

https://project2013b.blogspot.com/p...inograd.html

As always, and as it has been in the past, the email addresses of the list's members will NEVER BE PUBLICLY SHOWN. I hate spam as much as you do.

I look forward to your feedback and suggestions you might have. There are more plans in the works, so the site will evolve.

Regards,
'Past Expiry'

LINKS:
About 2013B
https://project2013b.blogspot.com/2...welcome.html
Project 2013B Database
https://project2013b.blogspot.com/p...atabase.html
Serial Number Submission Form
https://project2013b.blogspot.com/p/submit.html
Serial & Email Update Form (for submissions made before Oct 1,2021)
https://project2013b.blogspot.com/p...inograd.html
Contact
https://project2013b.blogspot.com/p...strator.html


PS: Please let others know of the new database, as I heard there was at least one collector who gave up on finding the matching pair to his star notes when it was announced the Zegers/Winograd Project had come to a close. A 2013B star note is a terrible thing to spend...







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 Posted 10/10/2021  04:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent. A thoroughly comprehensive website for the project.

If you don't mind me asking, what's in it for you ?
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 Posted 10/10/2021  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great idea.



to the CCF!
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 Posted 10/10/2021  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't you just love passion projects?
-----Burton
47 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLinw Coin Club
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New Member
Canada
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 Posted 10/10/2021  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PastExpiry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SteveInTampa,

What's in it for me? Partly selfish reasons; I own ten star notes so I want to find their matching pairs.

I also saw an opportunity to take what was done before and make it more automated and more internet friendly. Hopefully this will bring more eyes, particularly non-collector eyes, and ultimately more matches made as more people come into the hobby (and hopefully higher prices for these matching pairs).

The ultimate would be for these pairs to become the next 'Doge coin' in currency collecting in terms of popularity. I like that this kind of collecting is ACCESSIBLE. I that I mean, I like coin collecting as much as the next guy, but the days for finding silver coins, or classic old coins, in your pocket change are pretty rare these days.... but everyone has a wallet with bills in it.

Also, who wouldn't want to run a project that sounds like it is something created by a mad scientist? Maybe I'll take my shirt design hobby and make some evil 2013B shirt designs...
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 Posted 10/11/2021  04:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the explanation @PastExpiry.
What does the process look like when a match is found ? If two different collectors each have half of a matching pair, who ends up with both, and at what cost ?
Edited by SteveInTampa
10/11/2021 04:13 am
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 Posted 10/12/2021  05:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Once again, I'm both delighted and encouraged that this project lives on and I appreciate your efforts. But, not to sound argumentative, why do you forecast that possible matching pairs are valued at $15K ? A matching pair recently auctioned for $6K ($7,200 with fees) and I would reason that with more pairs found, that would diminish the value.

As individual notes, they're not errors. The fact that one of them shouldn't exist is what makes them an error pair. And, why the grading companies are not putting both of them in one holder is still a mystery to me. These pairs are primarily only valuable to paper money collectors. Try explaining the error to a non-collector and watch their eyes glaze over as you try to explain their importance. Personally and respectfully, I prefer errors that are visually dramatic and need no explanation.
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 Posted 10/12/2021  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's easy to explain.

What's your license plate?

XYZ-1234

Ok, there's another car out there with the same plate and you are getting all of his red light and parking tickets...

-----Burton
47 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLinw Coin Club
Owned by four cats and a wife of 37 years (joined 1983)
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 Posted 10/12/2021  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But that can't be.

It's WRONG


Ding ding ding, we have a winner...
-----Burton
47 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLinw Coin Club
Owned by four cats and a wife of 37 years (joined 1983)
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 Posted 10/12/2021  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PastExpiry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@SteveInTampa


The process of what happens when a pair is found is explained at my site, but the gist of it is that as administrator I am the only one that knows the email contact info of the owners of the notes that would make the matched pair. I would contact both, and ask both if they would like their contact info be known to the other owner (OR I could stay as the go-between if they are super paranoid about something). If BOTH agree then they can hash out amongst themselves what they are going to do like grown adults (an exeedingly rare concept in today's world, but that is a whole rant in itself). Ultimately the ideal is to get both bills in one owner's hands who can the go to auction, or keep it, or whatever. No guarantee that one of the two will balk at selling theirs to the other guy, or that one will be unflinching on a price. As a famous 80s techno song once said, "It takes 2 to make a thing go right."

$15,000 is an estimate I got straight from Mr. Winograd, and I have seen the figure bandied about by others as well. The $7200 auction result only happened in the last month or two. I could see a pair getting $15,000 if say the bills were excellent condition and had a serial number like 00000001. There is a 'famous' YouTuber that was using a figure of $150,000 but he just wants views for his videos.

To me, an error is an error is an error. Of course these pairs will be valuable to only paper money collectors... much like a 1878cc Morgan dollar is only valuable to a coin collector. Explaining this error to a non-collector is not complicated. Ask anyone what they would think if they pulled out dollar bills in their wallet and they all had the exact same serial number. Most would automatically think the bills were counterfeit, but explain that one was printed in DC and one in Fort Worth, then they 'get it'. EVERYONE understands government ineptitude an incompetence.

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 Posted 10/13/2021  06:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Once again @PastExpiry, thanks for your narrative.
Let's agree to disagree. I wish you success on your project sir.
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 Posted 12/30/2021  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since these things are printed at different BEP facilities, to me, they are not that big of a deal The notes can be told apart by the printing facilities ID letters . either W or FW. All we truly have are notes from two different facilities with identical serial numbers. If someone wants to pay big money for them then good luck down the road with them.

Now if they came down the same production line, at the same facility and popped off the press and could not be differentiated from each other then THAT would be something in my eyes.

Just wanted to toss in my Two Cents!
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 Posted 12/31/2021  04:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When it comes to graded, matched pairs, I've always wondered why they're not holdered together.
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 Posted 12/31/2021  09:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think I've seen a two-bill holder. I did see NGC has a holder for 8.5x11" documents, so size isn't the issue.

I could imagine it would be delivered with two half-sheet pockets and a finished seam in the middle and edges (instead of the bottom and edges). It would take a little more than the average care to get everything inserted correctly oriented for the final seal...
-----Burton
47 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLinw Coin Club
Owned by four cats and a wife of 37 years (joined 1983)
Pillar of the Community
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3694 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2021  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would request that they be encapsulated them similar to this pair.


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