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How To Tone A Morgan Nicely

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Valued Member
Canada
461 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2009  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gawd0wns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are probably getting those bags directly from the mint:
<http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wc...ry=10156>
Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2009  03:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FYI, when we visited Mammoth Lakes a few years back the family all took a dip in a volcanic hot springs. You had to be careful since there were areas of very hot water that could scald. The water had a strong odor of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). My sister went in with a bright white sterling silver necklace and when she got out the silver had acquired a uniform purple color due to reaction with the sulfides in the water. A little silver cleaner took the color right out, but the episode does suggest a way to rapidly create color on silver.
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United States
2919 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2009  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a very interesting read and I would also add that I too can understand why someone would NOT like a coin with toning, A T or not, I also have to admit I do love a nicely toned "MORGAN", but if we are to say that "we trust the TPG'S"I believe we are being some-what to trusting. I know that while you and I might send a coin in to be graded we would receive our grade and that would be that. I also know that the name's of the people sending coins in has a lot to do with the resultant factors, i.e. the grade it self, for instance the name Eliasberg ,Jack Lee, etc. I have seen the Eliasberg 1889-CC( I believe the estate of Jack Lee owns it now), Morgan silver dollar, this coin I believe was graded by PCGS(If I remember right) at MS-68, An unbelievable looking coin, very toned.

I also believe if I sent this coin in to a TPG, I would not of received the same grade, but back to the point, I love the look this coin holds and feel it does the coins design justice. I also see the other side of the coin ( no pun intended ) that the toning takes away from the design and could be dis-liked. How are we to know for sure the difference between A T and toning, I might be cynical, but do not trust things that are the way they are and just believe that to be "written in stone". I have read all the input from members and have to ask for some clarity on one issue, is it the belief of some that a E-BAY'R with more than 5000 slabbed coins "has been known to get them toned", is that what I am reading, if so, I just do not know what to believe anymore, . Well any way you like toning or you do not, if this is true, we are all to be very cautious. Also the 1899-CC Morgan, I do believe this coin is toooooo toned, hiding more than we can see with the naked eye and I believe it sold for more than a Million dollars last up for auction, go figure..........PS: I also keep "coins" in some mint bags to "store them"..........
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United States
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 Posted 05/26/2009  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gothic Florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hear M-80s work wonders.
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United States
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 Posted 05/26/2009  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gothic Florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a shame they don't sell the silver State Quarters in the cloth bags. I'd throw some in my basement and forget about them.
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United States
2 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hparker619 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
try the oven !
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23520 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  04:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
try the oven !


I am very much professionally interested regarding why you would exhume an 18-month-old thread for such a post.
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United States
709 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2010  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think artificially toning coins is wrong on so many levels. Those of you who think you are enhancing a coin are actually ruining a coin.
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 Posted 11/28/2010  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread both started and ended before I ever even knew what a Morgan dollar looked like, and now it is alive.....kinda Jurassic Park like.
Valued Member
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  07:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cajun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know a guy who can artificially tone .999 silver to produce very nice rainbow colors but has not figured out the 90% silver toning process. The 90% has 10% copper so he is experimenting with the different amounts of chemicals to perfect the process. To answer your question, not sure how he does it.
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United States
424 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sidekick-CA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To "exhume" an old thread as SD has put it, I believe there are about as many opinions on this subject as there have been posters but I believe the general consensus is (and I agree) that to AT a coin is nothing short of anathema and the ruination of a beautiful coin. Especially the Morgan. I've seen more than a few examples of Morgans obviously having been doctored in that manner, offering a myriad of stunningly beautiful rainbow colors but also appearing totally flat and with absolutely no luster; even trying forgive the bad photography. To chemically or physically alter a coin in that way seems obviously unethical to me and is to be condemned out of hand; the motivation being obviously nothing but $$$$. But what is dipping (even when done correctly and professionally)? Acetone? Distilled water? These are also intentional alterations to the coin yet seem to be generally accepted not only among the vast majority of numismatisticists but also by the leading TPG's if done judiciously. Isn't an alteration an alteration? The purists would seem to think so. Is it simply because it is for the most part, undetectable and thus OK? Yet the same process becomes not OK if done improperly and becomes easily discerned? Is NCS unethical in their conservation efforts? Yes, would say some. Others no, but their (NCS)enterprise does seem to be brisk to say the least and with no lack of patrons.

The US Mint and their sulphur-canvas bags with all the resultant toning? Coin albums? Kraft envelopes? Are the coins so kept considered AT? Not so by most of us but why? Didn't they alter the physical characteristics/properties and appearance of the coin? Obviously yes. And yes, it is considered "natural" toning. Is it then a question of intent? Unintended is ethical/moral and accepted whereas intentional is not, even given the method may be the same. I have an original mint bag and I'm going to treat one of my little ladies to a nice long sleep. As to the question of ethics/morality, You'll have to compare notes with the US Mint on that one but as far as I'm concerned, putting it in a canvas bag can only be considered "natural" as seems to be the generally accepted consensus.





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12437 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But what is dipping (even when done correctly and professionally)? Acetone? Distilled water? These are also intentional alterations to the coin yet seem to be generally accepted not only among the vast majority of numismatists but also by the leading TPG's if done judiciously. Isn't an alteration an alteration?

"Dipping" typically refers to the use of a commercial coin cleaner such as E-Z-Est or Jeweluster. This treatment does indeed alter the coin by stripping the oxide layers from the surface of a coin. If done by the proper hands, it can be undetectable and result in a slabbable coin. In less than skilled hands, it results in a flat dull coin stripped of luster.

The use of solvents(acetone, xylene) and distilled water should not be considered an alteration because they do not physically interact with the coin metal. They are effective at removing surface contamination but will not remove toning, oxidation, or staining.

For the AT vs. NT argument, it is not so much intent as it is whether a coin is subjected to a natural environment or not. A canvas mint bag would be a natural environment as well as an album- both are perfectly normal for coin storage and both have the potential to produce toning over a given period of time usually measured in years or even decades. Anything done to accelerate that natural oxidation process should be considered AT. The application of heat or chemicals to a coin is definitely not natural and only serves to increase the kinetics of slow natural oxidation reactions.
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 Posted 03/17/2011  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I for one like naturally toned coins, I look for them all the time. I have seen a few sellers on E-Bay that are heating up or doing something to make the coins he is selling look the way they do. I have looked over many tables at a coin show and never have seen a total of 150 true toner's but on the Bay there are 3 sellers that just in the last year have sold over 4000 of them and they all look the same.

My biggest problem with this is the same one I have with cut rate or self slabbing sellers. When they sell this trash the buyer is for the most part a beginner. That beginner will learn! and some will feel shafted and stop collecting!!

I collect because I enjoy it, it is not how I make a living. I hope later in life what I collect will go up in value. If we cut the number of collectors by 20% the value drops on almost all coins, a few rarer ones will hold there own but in general coin values will drop. Simple supply and demand.

I post on a tread a while back about what we get from collecting. My statement was and is more the WHY. The basic reasons for collecting are Investment and Enjoyment. But like many Investments it's always good to be balanced. If you collect because you enjoy it and it takes up some of your time that is a good reason. Kind of like golf....If you golf for 30 or 40 years and then look back. You have had many years of enjoyment to go with your sore shoulder and back....But what you spent on greens fees and clubs, balls, tee's and gloves is GONE. ZERO return on your hobby!!

Collecting coins for 20 to 30 years looking back I have all the enjoyment and what I own in hard assets is still worth more then my golf bag. Anything over zero is a gain. Collecting done right is a balancing act of Investment and collecting, just like most portfolios you have some winners and loser's. The key is to have a better then 50% winning ratio.

Back to toning SORRY. I like them, I also like brunettes, Dogs, and the outdoors. My one buddy likes Blondes there is no right or wrong and like all coin collecting.... look the coin over closely and always buy the coin!
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United States
8 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Whatsells95 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins toned the same on both sides, would make me take notice...Hmmmmm
Edited by Whatsells95
03/18/2011 01:55 am
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United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2011  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At the ANA National Money Show in Sacramento I saw a lot of rainbow toned Morgan dollars and no other type of dollar or denomination which should raise questions about the legitimacy of rainbow toning. One would expect that the circumstances which cause rainbow toning on a silver dollar would affect any other silver coin in that environment the same way so, where are all of the halves, quarters, dimes, et cetera with rainbow toning? Why is it that more than 90% of the rainbow toned Morgans have those colors on the obverse only and rarely on the reverse?

I have been collecting coins since 1966 and only recently has there been such a number of rainbow toned Morgans appearing on the market. I personally believe that the rainbow effect is man made and deliberate. I remember attending the Long Beach, CA shows in the late 1970's to early 1980's and the dealers selling rainbow toned coins were suspected of artificially toning them that way and none of the dealers I dealt with regularly wanted them in their case.
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