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Spots On Early American Copper-Damage? (1794 Half Cent)

 
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  12:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have posted this coin in the grading forum a while ago. This post is about surface preservation, though. On early copper, do spots like these constitute environmental damage? Or are they toning? This coin is in a PCGS straight graded holder with a green bean, but I am wondering how the surfaces on this coin seem to collectors--is this a "market acceptable" damaged coin? Or is this common to see on early copper coins?

*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***


Valued Member
United States
93 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add afewmorecents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess the fact that you say the coin is straight graded by PCGS and has a CAC bean has scared off anyone from posting. That's too bad. I'm curious too.

AFAIK, toning des not occur as black spots on copper coins. Therefore, I'll guess it's environmental damage. That said, professional dealers and graders have already answered your question about market acceptability.
Valued Member
United States
493 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much for that response! This coin was up for auction by David Lawrence during the winter, and I loved the detail on it. I am wondering how common these spots are on coins and just where the line between "spots" and "environmental damage" is.
Pillar of the Community
United States
752 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
those are usually called carbon spots. sometimes its carbon struck into the coin. sometimes its corrosion from something like water droplets or spittle. its a blemish. I do not know of a way to remove them.

the discerning collector will try to avoid such blemishes. a coin with those marks will sell for less than one without. that said this an a very nice coin. I think most people would be very happy to own such a piece.

i consider the rim bump on the back to be much more detracting than the spots. that would have received a details grade from me.

PCGS and CAC arent early copper specialists. here is an example I posted in another thread. these are the same coin.


I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
Valued Member
United States
493 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, @CarrsCoins! Was this one upgraded or downgraded?
Pillar of the Community
United States
752 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
that one was upgraded. not by me.

i should add that the copper stock used by the mint was pretty terrible in 1794. Half Cents received the worst of the copper stock. there are a lot of spots and laminations from that time frame. many of the Half Cents were struck from junk, cut down spoiled cents, talbot alum and lee tokens and all manner of poor metal stock.

i beat up on the graders a bit, but really its a problem of inconsistent manufacturing. coin storage has come a long way as well. the fact that any survived as nice as this example is nothing short of a miracle. the humidity in philidelphia alone should have destroyed them all.

your coin is beautiful.
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
Pillar of the Community
United States
6024 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2022  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The posted Half Cent is a terrific example, beautifully preserved. The spots do not appear to be active corrosion and I see no pitting. Surfaces are actually very smooth, far better than usually seen on Liberty Cap cents and Half Cents. The spots slightly impair eye appeal compared to an equivalent coin without any discoloration. I doubt any serious copper collectors would be discouraged from bidding high if this coin shows up at auction.

Wish I owned it!
Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2022  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Catbert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree it's a beauty. However, while the CAC sticker provides some downside protection upon resale, I try to avoid these "but for" coins and not be tempted by its other attractive attributes. I would choose a lesser graded example without the blemishes. YMMV.
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