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Ncgx - Do We Really Need A 10-Point Grading Scale?

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 Posted 11/16/2022  5:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just saw this announcement from NGC, and I'm more than a bit confused. I can see the argument for those unfamiliar with the Sheldon scale, but to me this will just be a source of confusion for collectors trying to compare grades.

It's almost a one-to-one match with the Sheldon scale. This new scale has 29 distinct grades, while the Sheldon scale has 30.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/articl...Scale_111622

My U.S. Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278808/
My U.S. Classic Commemorative Complete Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278741/
My 20th Century U.S. Type Set - Proofs only, No Gold https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/co...sets/396301/
Edited by hokiefan_82
11/16/2022 5:56 pm
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 Posted 11/16/2022  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose it had to happen. I'm not terribly impressed, and I doubt NGC would be very concerned with how I feel. Can't wait for the decimal distinctions--a 7.8, a 9.5, etc...
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 Posted 11/16/2022  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the scale as defined does have the decimal distinctions, to a degree. 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5,..., 8, 8.3, 8.5, 8.8, 9, 9.1,9.2,...,10.

29 different grade increments, while the Sheldon scale has 30.
My U.S. Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278808/
My U.S. Classic Commemorative Complete Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278741/
My 20th Century U.S. Type Set - Proofs only, No Gold https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/co...sets/396301/
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 Posted 11/16/2022  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just what everyone has been clamoring for! more confusion regarding what grades mean!

they must be really worried about CAC joining the grading game if they are trying something like this.
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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 Posted 11/16/2022  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another reason not to bother getting your coins graded by NGC or others ,as they will eventually follow in this madness .
Tony

For Butch & Jim rest in peace .
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 Posted 11/16/2022  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found the Sheldon Scale confusing for the first 4 minutes of collecting coins and I guess I didn't know that there was a need to change to a 10-point grading system. You will still be able to get the 70-point grading if you use NGC. The 10-point scale is for NGCX.

I wonder if other TPGs will follow? Maybe we need a 100-point system as well. Will this change coin collecting? Not for me. Why not just use 'Lenticular Printing' so that it changes from the Sheldon Scale to the 10-point scale when you tilt the slab?

This was the email I got from CCG.

ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637

Clothes Dryers are the Coin's natural enemy. NEVER store your coin collection in a dryer. This has been a Yokozuna Public Service Announcement. dryer coin
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 Posted 11/16/2022  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder how Earle42 feels about this....
I'm by no means a pro and will never claim to be...just my 2 cents
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 Posted 11/16/2022  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's next, adding + and * designations? I don't think this "new" grading scale will be very popular. Recall NGC also added the "W" designation for a couple years to designate untoned, white coins, that designation didn't last long.
Edited by jimbucks
11/16/2022 10:18 pm
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 Posted 11/16/2022  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CGC, part of the same company as NGC, has been grading sports cards, comics, authenticating signatures, etc. since about 2000 using the 10 point system with tenths. I assume the company is attempting to bring the 10 point system to coins. I wonder if the ten point labels/grading costs will be cheaper, if so it may have some success.

I have several Stan Lee signed comic books in CGC plastic holders. One is graded 9.6, another 9.8 and one a perfect 10 like my wife, at least I tell her that...

I've read a couple articles about William Sheldon, his largely debunked body type theory called Somatotype, supposedly convicted of having sex with minors, accused by the ANS of swapping out low grade coins for higher grades. I don't know if this is true, but maybe some wouldn't mind breaking away from his system. He was brilliant understanding/writing about coins. I have his Penny Whimsy book. But why the arbitrary 70 as perfect? Did he ever say the number 70 had some special symbolism for him? Why not 10 as perfect?
Edited by livingwater
11/16/2022 11:33 pm
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 Posted 11/17/2022  05:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slerk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's just admit everything so that we are already so used to the 70-point rating scale and to the letter designation (F, VF, XF, AU) that the 10-point system is simply unusual for us. I think NGC is also trying to introduce something new in this way and thereby bypass competitors.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  06:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This idea has been discussed before. I would like an electronic scan grading system, should be more consistent rather than opinions. Most if not all collectors have questioned, been skeptical of grades given. Don't know if it will catch on, but I welcome a 10 point coins grading system since I'm familiar with it in the trading cards, comics arena. But it will still be a TPG employee opinion.
Edited by livingwater
11/17/2022 07:02 am
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 Posted 11/17/2022  07:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like another marketing strategy to the favor of NGC the promotor, (to my way of thinking), aimed at those that are not confident in grading coins in the MS-65 to MS-70 range.
All for a fee, of course.

I prefer to include and display only 'raw' coins in my collection.
Those coins that are in pristine condition are protected in hard acrylic airtight holders.
Easier for me; I am not a fan of modern NCLT product, and marketed specifically at collectors, because they usually turn out to be poor investments in the numismatic after market

Perhaps I may come across as a bit cynical, but I have been a collector for far more decades that I am prepared to admit.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But why the arbitrary 70 as perfect? Did he ever say the number 70 had some special symbolism for him? Why not 10 as perfect?
The story I've read was that the numbers were supposed to be price multipliers, such that a G-4 was four times the price of a Poor-1, and a MS-60 was sixty times the price. Of course that's not how prices actually work, especially at the upper range, so it makes little sense as a story.

As livingwater correctly pointed out, the 10-point scale has a long history in non-numismatic collecting. So really the only reason against 10-point grading is that everyone is so used to the Sheldon grades by now.
[Another reason, I suppose, is that it's insufficiently granular at the lower end; there's no equivalent to Fair-2, it goes from Poor straight to AG. Of course many other grading scales have the same problem, and arguably it's a problem even with the Sheldon scale itself.]
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 Posted 11/17/2022  08:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use NGC as my TPG of choice.
Why?
Because it doesn't take them 4+ months to grade a coin like that other "popular" TPG.
And I don't use any other TPGs.

BUT

I will NOT accept coins in NGCX slabs.
I understand Sheldon grades even as "strange" as they are.
The Sheldon grades have been the industry standard (as weird as they are) for so long that a change would probably impact the hobby heavily in a negative manner.
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like they should have done this from the start, not ~35 years later. Remember when the US tried going Metric? I feel like this is going to end up having the same rate of success.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jbuck, good point, it probably won't get wide acceptance. I'd still like to see an electronic photo scan grading system, at least attempted, less opinionated.
Edited by livingwater
11/17/2022 10:45 am
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