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Strong Wreath Clash On 1881-O Morgan...wow

 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/20/2009  10:46 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I can't find this clash on any listed 1881-O VAM. The clash of the eagles wing and T and ST are also evident, but this picture really caught the wreath. The edges of the obverse die were pretty ragged, and it's got cuds all the way around.

Chancellor Sutler

Edited by Chancellor Sutler
12/20/2009 10:48 pm
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14454 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2009  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
clash marks are very common on Morgans and you will find them just like yours in just about every date
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/20/2009  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes...and I can't find this one in any of the documented VAMs at the VAMworld site. Am I missing something?

Chancellor Sutler
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23520 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2009  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Am I missing something?


Not necessarily. VAMming in general, and VAMworld in particular, is a work in progress; there's a whole lot of information yet to be gathered and codified. There are thousands of VAMs, and the list is not nearly complete. Existing VAMs have not been detailed in complete fashion, new variants are being discovered every day, and the fact that an existing VAM might also display clashes (or has a clashed version) is easily believable whether that information has been posted in public or not.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 12/20/2009  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks.....I think the varieties are fascinating, and I thought this one was cool because it was more complete than some of the clashes you see, which are just a little line here or there. I'm surprised too...that my cheap little camera could capture it.

Chancellor Sutler
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 Posted 12/20/2009  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Dave, clashing doesn't make it any specific VAM and unless its something major (usually like a letter transfer) it is usually not even mentioned, it is the die marriage that makes the VAM
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 12/20/2009  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seemed to me that the die clash marks, gouges and scratches are what defines a specific die marriage. So basically that's not right? Or are you simply saying that "other" clash evidence can be found on VAMs that are listed without it changing the die pairing?

Tying to understand. I thought the die clash marks were markers.

Chancellor Sutler
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 Posted 12/20/2009  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
no its not clashes that make the die marriage, usually a clash will add a letter to the specific VAM number if its significant like mentioned before
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/20/2009  11:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bryan......I think I'm starting to "get it". I will probably end up buying the book. I like Morgans...and this makes them even more fascinating.

I am a descendent of Rutherford Hayes, 19th President of the US, and the first to have a Presidential VETO overturned. He Vetoed the Bland Allison act....but there was too much pork in it for congress and they overturned the veto.

Chancellor Sutler
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 Posted 12/21/2009  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratman4762 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
no its not clashes that make the die marriage, usually a clash will add a letter to the specific VAM number if its significant like mentioned before
I'm definately not a VAM man, but this makes sense to me. A pair of dies (or marriage) can strike alot of coins before a clash occurs.
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 Posted 12/21/2009  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Chancellor... I bought quite a few Morgans before I ever even knew what VAM meant and I know I have said it many times on this forum but I was looking at my 1878 7/8 TF Morgan and noticed quite a bit of doubling on it and went searching for what it could be and that is when I found this forum where someone else was asking about a 7/8TF also and mine was pretty close to his but not exactly like it. That was where I heard the term VAM for the first time, I then went and ordered the book (even before I joined the forum) and then before the book arrived in the mail I went ahead and joined and started asking questions so I pretty much knew what I had before the VAM encyclopedia even arrived but I found quite a few nice ones I didn't know I had after getting the book
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 12/21/2009  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been scoping these 4 rolls of mine and there's one with strong doubleing on the entire wreath...but I mixed it back in the lot. I'm not going to look for it right now, but I am going to pick up a copy of the book. I like the forensic aspect of numismatics.

Chancellor Sutler
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709 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2009  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Vamming is numismatic forensics. Clashed coins tell an interesting story and many are worth the time to look for. Some of those clashed coins have clashed letters. The clashed E's are fun to look for.
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