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Paypal "Gift" Option?

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 Posted 02/09/2011  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add exodus125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the problem with paypal gift is that when you use it to pay for something, paypal does not protect your purchase because it wasn't really a purchase. Some months ago someone was selling silver on here and requesting the payment to be made by paypal gift. I was one of the ones that bought some silver and then the seller never shipped it out. I had a VERY hard time getting paypal to refund me the money, and honestly, I think they eventually gave in because I nagged them to death AND I have a lot of funds tied up with them.

Although the gift option is great to use with someone you trust, if you have the slightest doubt, do not do it. Paypal will not cover the amount if the seller does not ship.

When you send it as a gift, as far as PayPal is concerned, no transfer of goods took place. I request paypal gift from my customers all the time and 99% are fine with it. If the shipment was to get lost or stolen while in transit to them I would refund their money or send them another item. I am an honest person and most of my customers know this, but not everyone is.

I believe if you have funds in your paypal account already (positive balance) and you send money as a payment to someone, no fees are charged. I have heard if you send money from a bank account there are also no fees but not too sure about that.

One last note about paypal gift. IF you have no balance in your paypal account and you send a payment as a gift which is taken out of your bank account, if there is ever a problem you can contact your bank and they should cover you for that since the transaction was involved in a scam. As far as I know out of the 3 or 4 people that got scammed on here from the silver seller, only 2 people got their money back, myself and someone else who sent the payment funded from a bank and the bank refunded the money and did an investigation.

Hope this info helps someone out.
Edited by exodus125
02/09/2011 1:53 pm
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 Posted 02/09/2011  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What happened with this silver scammer, if you wouldn't mind telling me? How bad was it?
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 Posted 02/09/2011  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this is a very controversial subject in that if you are using paypals service they deserve to be paid for you using it. If you don't like the fee's then don't use it. I have used it but it was usually paying people back for something I had borrowed or something like that. I don't think it should be used to get around their fees just because you want your money faster and don't want to have to worry about having to pay their fees. There is a cost for convenience and that is why everyone wants to be paid by paypal because there money is there automatically and they don't have to wait for a check or money order to get there by mail. It can be done and has been done but as I said its very controversial about how people are using it to get around paypals fee's just because they want to use their service for free
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 Posted 02/09/2011  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flashinm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not to be the ethics police, but I say it's a dishonest practice. Paypal provides a great service at a very reasonable cost (ever send something western union?). If you don't want to pay the fees just build them into your price or have the buyer add 3%.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  02:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Paypal provides a great service

That was the point I was trying to make. Not sure about the reasonable cost but it is what they charge and if you use their service I feel they deserve the price they charge for that service. A person wouldn't tell an electrician their prices are too high so they are going to wire the house their self and just going to use their license number for the inspector and think they are going to be fine with that, or any retail chain and tell them you are just going to take this item because you don't want to pay their prices they charge for it. in my opinion this is the same exact thing. I like it for as I said paying back money you have borrowed or if a student in is college away from home and running low in cash and their parents want to send them some extra cash for the month for certain things. In those cases I like them having this option but I feel its being abused by people selling items and using the service and getting around their fees because they want to use the service but keep all their money
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 Posted 02/10/2011  04:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the Gift option is free as long as the senders paypal account is linked to a bank account, I have sent money for a few things like this and neither party gets charged


That's exactly right. I have sent and requested Paypal gift payments here at the CCF for my buy, sell, and auction items, and is linked to several bank accounts and credit card back ups. If the buyer or winner of any of my items is ever incurred any charges through this option, I will pay or refund any amount that is in question
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 Posted 02/10/2011  06:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan1315 raises a very good point..especially when I see all the bashing of eBay sellers,silver buyers,HSN,etc....they all bypass the system and we bash them for it...I'm guilty myself.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  08:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter53562 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exodus is right...there was a member here who ripped off a bunch of us, including myself, when he demanded the gift option as the only payment method.

With that said, I simply won't do it again from the buyer standpoint or the seller standpoint.

From the buyer standpoint, you lose the protection as they expect no exchange of goods. When I told Paypal what happened it was a major uphill battle and eventually got nowhere despite the overwhelming evidence. Maybe I wasnt persistent enough but I just didnt have the time to harass them every day.

From the seller standpoint, I feel it's a bit shady to ask for this option to get around the fees. There's a cost of doing business with every transaction, and by asking for the gift option the cost is being passed on to Paypal strictly.

Say what you want about them or Ebay, but at the end of the day it's a dishonest practice as there is an exchange of goods and not simply giving money to a friend or family member. Just my Two Cents worth. I know from talking to Paypal when I had my dispute that they are aware that this is a growing issue for them and they told me they were taking a closer look at it.

I know some will disagree with my view, and that's fine. But I will ask you this. If you were the owner of a company like Paypal, how would you feel about tons of people finding a loophole in your system to get around your fees (aka revenue)?
Edited by CoinHunter53562
02/10/2011 08:51 am
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 Posted 02/10/2011  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add exodus125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yea its a controversial topic I guess. Everyones entitled to their opinion. The payment/gift option to me is like buying extra insurance for a package when you mail it usps. If it gets stolen or breaks, your covered with the insurance, if you dont have the insurance then your out of luck. The fee you pay is paying for the insurance.

Also, I never demand that the payment be sent as a gift, I just ask that IF POSSIBLE for them to do it that way so I save on the fees. Theres been some that say they rather not and thats fine, others send it as a regular payment and add something extra to cover the fees. The way I see it is if theres ever a problem with the order, wether its my fault or the post office's fault, I will take care of it immediately and I wont wait around to see what paypal or the post office can do for the seller or buyer. I have had the post office loose stuff and I dont make the buyer file a claim with paypel, I just send them a replacement.

Also remember this, as the BUYER your the one taking the risk by sending the money as a gift. If anything goes wrong and the seller is not an honest person you will be out of luck.
Edited by exodus125
02/10/2011 3:01 pm
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 Posted 02/10/2011  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add exodus125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FYI, here is another thing to consider. I have a friend who sends and receives money as gift only and paypal actually suspended his gift option so now he can only send as a payment, even if its a gift.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An issue here is also whether you use a credit card or cash to fund the transaction (Regular PayPal). If you use cash, the 3% fee should be held in a different light than using a credit card where the CC company hits PayPal for 2% or more of the cost. Using cash PayPal gets the full 3% to drop in their pocket versus a credit card where PayPal gets 1% at most.

I use 'Personal Transaction' and 'Payment Owed' when needed. It avoids the fees and the 'gift' dilemma and is essentially an eCheck that costs pennies to accomplish. Just make sure PayPal gets their cut most of the time. Don't try to circumvent their system when you know the fees are what keeps them in business. I'm certain PayPal has averaged 2% on my transactions and I figure that's around $1500 in the last 3 years.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I use 'Personal Transaction' and 'Payment Owed' when needed. It avoids the fees and the 'gift' dilemma and is essentially an eCheck that costs pennies to accomplish.

This is an option that is frequently overlooked and it cannot possibly be considered "fee avoidance". It is still a fee-free transaction when using PP balance or checking account linkage and it is appropriate for small personal purchases. I have always been leery of overusing the gift option for fear that there may be an invisible limit that will affect your account if too many gift transactions occur.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am going to start leaving it up to the buyer. biokemist brings up a good point.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't really buy the whole morality thing, because paypal and eBay will milk people for as much as they can because they can (they're a monopoly, so much for the 'if you dont like their service dont use them'). As long as it wouldn't hurt their profits, they would keep milking to the limit no matter what. If people want to get around that to an extent, then more power to them. Paypal's rules aren't morals, and capitalism isn't the same as 'morals'. It's a system, nothing more. I don't really consider paypal evil either, just an inevitability in a capitalist society. It's more of just a game than anything.
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 Posted 02/11/2011  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flashinm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan, I think their prices are very reasonable when you compare them to any other form of instant payment (western union, money gram, etc.).

Shadow, would you think it's ok for someone to set up a non profit with a sole purpose of purchasing personal items to avoid paying sales tax? I know there's a difference in legality, but it's the same principle. You are purposely misrepresenting your purchase to avoid paying the fees associated with that purchase.
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