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 Replies: 8 / Views: 2,124 |
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Hello all,
In Italy, silver is still regularly melted (I've posted a number of coin shop buys where the owners have told me they send silver to the refinery once or twice a month). Silver is bought at about 20% back here. Sold at or just below melt; whatever is better than what the refinery pays, so I've bought.
Question - what what price point is u.s. 90% melted in the u.s.?
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
R
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Pillar of the Community
United States
713 Posts |
At $1.34 an ounce the value of the silver in a pre-1965 50 cent piece equals 50 cents (assuming I did the math correctly). Therefore at that point, disregarded the costs involved with melting, it becomes profitable to melt coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts |
90% silver is very popular in USA with those who stack silver to preserve wealth, to prepare for bad times when people might use it for barter, trade for services at it's melt value. As I stated in a prior post a while back, I contacted a few refineries in the United States and asked them if they still get 90% silver to melt. They said none to very little because dealers make more money selling to stackers than sending to melt. So they may be melting it in Europe but not in USA.
However, when silver jumped up over $45 an oz in 2011 a lot of people sold their silver. Dealers had more than they could sell so 90% silver was sent to be melted. That could happen again but that's an exception not the norm.
I have no clue how high silver price would need to be for 90% silver to be melted in significant amounts in USA. There are more silver stackers now and even if silver prices spike really high I assume some stackers would hold on to their 90% rather than sell. At least for me I'd sell my silver bars before my 90%.
Edited by livingwater
04/08/2024 9:19 pm
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Moderator
 Australia
16804 Posts |
In the US domestic market, 90% silver coins don't go to melt while the price is rising. Coins go to the melt when the price starts falling from a high.
When the price falls, some people who bought into silver during the boom under the assumption that silver prices would keep rising forever get spooked and want to "lock in their profits" and sell. Who do they sell to? Dealers. But if the price is falling, nobody wants to buy it off the dealers, so dealer stockpiles get bigger. Dealers don't want to be stuck with big stockpiles of the stuff while the price is falling either, so they sell to the only people actively buying silver in a sell market: the smelters.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts |
I'm not aware of 90% silver being melted in USA when prices are falling or way down, but it could happen. I've talked to dealers and watched YouTube videos of dealers who said they sent a lot of 90% to melt in 2011 when prices were highest, people lined up outside their doors waiting to sell. Currently 90% is not being melted in USA as far as I can determine.
The point is if there's a rush to sell, if dealers have way too much inventory, it doesn't matter if it's because prices went up or down. 90% silver won't be melted as long as dealers can sell to customers for more profit than to refineries.
Edited by livingwater
04/09/2024 08:50 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
At $1.34 an ounce the value of the silver in a pre-1965 50 cent piece equals 50 cents (assuming I did the math correctly). Therefore at that point, disregarded the costs involved with melting, it becomes profitable to melt coins. @howell1018: That's close to accurate ($1.34) for when a 90% U.S. half dollar reaches 50 cents in silver. I believe the question was when elevated silver prices make melting them into bullion becomes profitable. At $20 silver 90% junk U.S. halves (non-cull) recently traded around $8 or $9 while containing about $7.25 in silver. No reason to melt. At $25 silver if they trade at $10 while containing $9 in silver? Again no to melting. At $35 silver suppose they trade at $13 while containing $12.66 in silver. Things are getting close. Go all the way to $50 then it changes. The halves might well sell for less than their silver content. Say $18 vs. $18.08 silver but still, it changes things. Culls and slicks are a different animal. Dimes and quarters are too. And as always, ymmv. |
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Moderator
United States
54280 Posts |
ymmv = your mileage may very
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Quote:
I'm not aware of 90% silver being melted in USA when prices are falling or way down, but it could happen. I've talked to dealers and watched YouTube videos of dealers who said they sent a lot of 90% to melt in 2011 when prices were highest, people lined up outside their doors waiting to sell. Currently 90% is not being melted in USA as far as I can determine.
The point is if there's a rush to sell, if dealers have way too much inventory, it doesn't matter if it's because prices went up or down. 90% silver won't be melted as long as dealers can sell to customers for more profit than to refineries. 2011 and early 80s Hunts Brothers saw a lot of 90% being sent to the refiners. A ton of sellers were bringing these and regular bullion in to sell to take advantage of the high spot prices. Dealers don't have unlimited capital so it would only make sense that they were sending these off to the refiners as quickly as possible as the number of sellers far exceeded the number of retail buyers. There are plenty of videos out on YouTube with estimations of how much has been melted over the years. Quote:
At $1.34 an ounce the value of the silver in a pre-1965 50 cent piece equals 50 cents (assuming I did the math correctly). Therefore at that point, disregarded the costs involved with melting, it becomes profitable to melt coins. You can't disregard the costs involved in melting without disregarding the acquisition costs unless you're assuming all the 90% silver coins being considered for melting were found on the ground. Edited by CoinHunter53562
04/09/2024 10:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Italy
1130 Posts |
Thanks everyone. This is the kind of thought process I was curious to see....
I imagined as BH1964 said... When retail demand falls below smelting price 90% will be melted. I'm not on the ground in the u.s..and haven't bought silver in the u.s. so thanks everyone.
I wish there was a way to get reliable numbers out of the coin dealers I've dealt with in Italy; I can only conclude that some 90% U.S. silver is melted regularly.
Nineteenth century common date 5 Belgian and french francs I suspect are melted at much greater numbers. These are near enough the common bullion coin here (along with the 500 lire). It's also kind of hard to find a 5 franc with any decent numismatic value because most are so heavily worn.
I buy roughly 300 half dollars, 150-200 quarters, and 50ish dimes a year. My sample size is only about 3 years though.
Edited by Roma2021
04/09/2024 10:47 am
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Replies: 8 / Views: 2,124 |
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Posted 04/08/2024 8:55 pm
