Real Or Fake: Old Counterfeit 20 Reis, 1828B - Brazil?

Anyone...?

I've just found this post, I will take a look on the webs.

Who cares? Tell that to the people who will readily drop several hundred or more on contemporary counterfeits of British 1700's halfpennies... seems like those might correlate well here.

WEIGHT: I know nothing of this series, but just speaking generally... This copper, as worn & corroded as it appears to be, probably weighed a good chunk more than 3.82g when it was made (even if it was a crudely produced counterfeit on a porous planchet to begin with). Probably not anything close to that prescribed 7.17g... but maybe in the low 5._ range?

As a collector who specializes in counterfeits I would like to weigh in.

First, Sap is correct - this is a counterfeit. The weight of 53% of original dictates that fact. (Even a corroded coin that was originally 7 grams - should not be as light in weight as quoted here). Also the die engraving is very bad for this type.

So - Never over estimate the loss of weight caused by wear or erosion. Loss of 5% or more always raises by suspicion and in this case almost HALF the coin's mass is GONE.

IMPOSSIBLE.

Second, the notes in Krause are, in my opinion, RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Moreover, I find that is NOT at all surprising. Let me explain.

In the 1820's in Brazil the government was using an early form of TOKEN coinage similar to the Bank of England Coinage of the period 1804-1814 or so. In both cases, the country issued and used sub-standard coins. In any token issue the MONETARY VALUE EXCEEDS the intrinsic value. This is done usually because of uncertainty in the political system which results in hoarding HARD CURRENCY.

Since 1965 - the US has been using a Token currency. It is not backed by any metal at all.

In times like these, substandard coins are the norm and counterfeits typically pass along side by side with originals as tokens. That happened in the US in the Hard Times of the 1830's as well.

In my opinion, this type of contemporary circulating counterfeit is every bit as historically interesting as the mint made originals. Both kinds circulated side by side in daily commerce and the average man on the street encountered BOTH types every day.

Value is in the eye of the collector and is set by the rules of supply and demand. Personally I see many counterfeits as far rarer and inherently more valuable than originals, other collectors obviously do not agree with me on the "value" part, but almost everyone agrees counterfeits are less common than originals.

Many counterfeits are unique or nearly so. How many unique or nearly unique coins sell for only a few dollars?

But as to the value of this particular coin itself? I have NO firm number based on a factual knowledge of this specific series, but in general a forgery of this kind usually sells for between $15 and $30. Without knowing the actual population and without having a feel for the number of collectors with this specialty, there is actually no way of telling.