1830-S Guanajuato Minors: Unique Die Style?

Hi Westwood Arms,

This sounds like a fascinating story. I'm not currently a member of US Mex and thus don't have access to the article. It would be much appreciated if you might give us a brief summary of the situation that led to the use of these English dies!

Good thread... There is quite a design contrast between the Guanajuato big boys and their little brothers. And interesting about the availability/prices, too... I've noticed casually that high grade late 1830's Go 2R seem to pop up a lot... Can't say I've seen all that many lower- to mid-grade Go minors popping up on ebay all that often, relatively... they always sort of catch my eye b/c of the distinct style. Probably just an anomaly or I haven't paid close enough attention... The price thing does seem to be true - have noticed a couple very decent mid-grade Go minors go pretty low via auction format recently.

One thing about the Cap & Ray minors in general - common pieces even in respectable mid-grades (say, strong Fine to a VF) can usually be had quite cheaply... they don't seem to have gone along for the ride with the 8R. However, there DOES seem to be a good, healthy market for the high-grade stuff...

Thanks for filling me in, Realeswatcher and Swamperbob. This really helps!

As an example of the lack of collector interest in the minors, I recently purchased a Guadalajara 1860 1/2 real, a date that has a fascinating history, for an embarrassingly low price. This is a really distinctive looking coin (here in high grade):

http://www.coinarchives.com/fcdf8f0...age20686.jpg

Please allow me to speculate for a moment: it seems that 4 reales was never a very "popular" denomination to circulate--is this because it was perfectly reasonable to cut an 8R in half? Thanks in advance for any observations.

The half dollar has NEVER ever been a popular coin. The reason is very uncertain. The US made half dollars instead of Dollars for many years in its early history BECAUSE of this fact. The US mint KNEW very well that dollars were HOARDED as soon as they appeared so they stopped making Dollars in 1803.

The only author I know of who felt strongly that the Bust Half was the real "workhorse" of the US economy was Keith Davignon. But that was because he was trying to popularize his topic.

As to the theory of cutting 8Rs to make change - I have heard that story many MANY times, but I do not see it as truly practical on a large scale. It may have been an emergency expedient for small change BUT it would have been an "inaccurate" method of making change.

The actual number of cases of making change with 8Rs is low. I have encountered under 100 that appear to be legitimate. Most cut coins are bogus and use damaged hosts in an attempt to "add collector value". It could be that most were melted - but in the period when silver was intrinsically valuable (and coinage was not "token") a cut coin would hardly be reliable as a fraction of the value. They would also be far to easily clipped or filed to have been acceptable widely in circulation. A cut coin would have to be weighed EACH time it was used.

I think Doty's article is an excerpt from his published book(s) and don't want to step on his or any copyright toes. This article is on line but you have to be a member of USMEXNA. Membership costs $20-30 per year depending on whether you want an email or hard copy subcription.